174: Campfire Series - ‘The Bluebeam Story’, with Don Jacob

174: ‘The Bluebeam Story’, with Don Jacob
Evan Troxel: [00:00:00] Welcome to the TRXL podcast. I'm Evan Troxel. In this episode, I'm talking with Don Jacob. Currently serving as the Chief Innovation Officer of Bluebeam, Don has had a three decade plus career rolling up his sleeves and building teams that deliver services and software that have a global impact. As part of the original startup team, he spent the past two decades building Bluebeam into a leading global brand in the AEC industry. Maybe you've heard of it. In this episode, we explore Don's fascinating journey from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory to co founding Bluebeam and transforming the AEC industry along the way. Today Don shares the origins of Bluebeam, its impact on AEC, and his vision for the future of technology in these fields, including some new things that they're cooking up.
Our conversation reveals the story of how [00:01:00] Bluebeam has evolved over 23 years to become an industry leading tool, achieving its original mission of elevating project collaboration and document management in the AEC industry.
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All right, thank you for helping me pay the bills around here. Now let's get back to the episode for today. Okay, so grab your favorite beverage. Find a comfortable seat around the campfire, relax and settle in, and enjoy listening to Don Jacob as he tells us the Bluebeam story.
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Evan Troxel: Don, welcome to the TRXL podcast. Great to have you. And
Don Jacob: Thank you. I've been looking forward to this for a while.
Evan Troxel: I'm really [00:03:00] interested to hear your story. You have been in the software AEC tech side of things for quite a while. So maybe you can just take us on the journey that you've been on and tell the story about how all that happened.
Don Jacob: Okay. Well, yeah, I'll, um, you know, share a little bit, uh, kind of the, the medium length, background a bit. But so, Bluebeam, we've, uh, been at this now for year, uh, we're on, uh, year 23. Hard to believe it's been that, um, that short, that long, that longly short of a time. Um, And, uh, yeah, we started back in, in, in 2002 and, uh, you know, originally the, kind of the, some of the, the core work, uh, came out of, of work that was going on at NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory.
Uh, so there was, um, Bluebeam based in Pasadena, Southern California. That's kind of, it's the, the, where the, the core is. And then now, of course we have offices around, around the world, but, [00:04:00] uh, that, that's been kind of our, our core base for, uh, uh, for a long time. But we, you know, back in, back in the day, so I personally worked at NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory for, um, back for about 11 years back and started back in 1989 and it, it was an amazing.
Amazing time to be there. Um, and kind of had two lives there. Uh, half my life was working in the, the deep space network, uh, working with all the, uh, part of the, um, on a project where the radio signals that were coming back from the spacecraft, we'd actually be able to do science off of the, uh, the radio signal, be able to figure out what the, uh, the makeup of the atmosphere was of Mars and, uh, all these other planets.
And that was, you know, by far just an amazing, amazing, um, experience. But then the, the latter half of my, my time there, uh, we were working on the data systems around, Spacecraft design. And the challenge in the mid nineties [00:05:00] was JPL was going through this period of, instead of working on one large mission every decade or so, it had to evolve its way of working to do many more smaller missions in parallel, and that triggered off a whole And Whole new way of, of thinking about, okay, well, how do we build the tools to be able to support that better where we can do a bunch of missions in parallel.
And at the time, this is, you know, the mid nineties, you know, back in the day, hard to believe, but, um, it was an era of sun workstations, 30, 000 a seat for, uh, for that, that, um, that hardware and then, uh, just as much for the software, whether it's computer vision, pro engineer and, and such. And so you had these, these designs that you had to share throughout the, um, throughout the project.
And how do you make that where you don't have to have everybody having to have access to the, the [00:06:00] CAD systems? And how do you make it where you're not having to print, um, you know, you know, ammonia prints, you know, three, three or, you know, vellums, that sort of a thing. So there was this work to look at how do we do this, uh, electronically and that, that spurred some, some work around the PDF standard as being a really, uh, capable, uh, format for being able to, uh, take, take that, that information and be able to share it downstream, if you will.
Evan Troxel: When did the PDF, you know, it's a little redundant, right? PDF format,
uh, portable, portable document format, like really arrive on the scene because I think before that it was really EPS and file formats like that, that had kind of vector data stored inside them, but that's what Illustrator would write to if you wanted to write a vector drawing file to something, you know, and transfer it something and not lose that vector fidelity.
But what, when did PDF show up on the scene?
Don Jacob: Yeah, so, um, it really, yeah, [00:07:00] a lot of PDF has its beginnings and origination from PostScript. It was the 97, 98, uh, John Warnock, one of the, the, uh, founders of Adobe, actually, he, uh, created, um, it was Project Carousel. It was kind of the, the code name for it internally. And it was a way of, uh, being able to be able to provide published content in a consistent web, uh, format.
Uh, and that, that's really what prompted it. And that was, I think, 97, 98, when that, uh, really became, uh, a thing. And so it was right around that time. Yeah.
Evan Troxel: When I was in architecture school, which was 92 to 97, this is the EPS file days, right?
And, and it was like TIFFs, and on the Mac it was PICT files, which nobody, nobody even knows about anymore, right? And, um,
EPS files, and we would save stuff from like PowerCAD or AutoCAD as EPS files to get them into QuarkXPress so we could do desktop publishing, right?
Which was still kind of a new thing back then. [00:08:00] And, Do our large presentation boards and pin them up on the wall because we weren't drafting by hand on vellum anymore. We were, I mean, not, not all of us, but a few of us were really going down this technology roll. And there was this whole world of, um, File formats that we had
to deal with. And it was
like, just the nitty gritty of trying to get from here to there was such a, a thing and, and PDF really changed the game when it came to that, because it really was this fully encapsulated file with all the fonts and the line weights and everything that you wanted as a, as a, for graphical representation in a file, especially as an architect, right?
It was really important to communicate graphically and to have all that information there and be able to. Put all that in one thing and have somebody open it up on the other end and have them see exactly what you would expect them to see and
not have their computer substituting fonts and doing all that kind of stuff that we had to worry about back then.
Don Jacob: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's where, um, you went [00:09:00] when Bluebeam first got started. So we, we actually originated out of, um, another company. So some people left JPL to start, um, this company, uh, Alliance Space Systems. Um, and they basically were known for making every Mars robotic arm that's on the surface of Mars.
And it was kind of like the A team of the JPL Mechanical Design Division people left, started this, uh, this org. And, um, they wanted to have a better way of, of doing, uh, work. and instead of, you know, why would we print paper out? We're, we're, we're putting robotic arms on the surface of ours. There's gotta be a better way.
And so that's really what prompted the work. But, you know, out of that, there was, Hey, we, we've got to get better. We've got to get smarter, more efficient at doing this, but we need the quality. I mean, this is highly precise engineering type stuff we're doing.
And so that's where, you know, PDF is a, um, You know, as a format [00:10:00] for dealing with line weights, line, uh, thickness, uh, uh, shrinking, uh, you know, making sure the scale is right.
All of these things are, uh, important when, when you're working on large, uh, format drawings and you're, you're making critical, you know, decisions, whether that be, you know, building, uh, stadiums or, uh, working on, uh, robotic arms on the surface of Mars. And, um, That's really where the first three years of Bluebeam.
So we, you know, it was a technology, um, that was incubated, kind of developed in house at, at, uh, this company ASI. And then, uh, there was a decision made, uh, we started to recognize, well, the, the, the work that they did work for, uh, JPL for, it was, uh, Hughes Space and Com at the time. And these people started saying, this is great.
We would love to, uh, to be able to use, you know, the, the, the workflows that you've developed [00:11:00] where using PDF as a way to be able to take that design, embed the analysis in that, use a version of the model that's embedded in the PDF as the, the, the, the, the master for building the CNC tool paths off of being able to then run a, uh, a coordinate measuring machine and validate the AS design versus the AS built and embed that back in the PDF.
And this becomes this, this, this, effectively digital twin kind of, uh, representation of a fully dimension drawing with all the, the entities around that, making up that part actually, uh, incorporate that in in the PDF. So you've got the physical thing, and then you've got the, the drawing, uh, that has all this encapsulated information as your, your configuration record.
And so that concept, um, is really what, what prompted, uh, us to spin out Bluebeam as a, as a separate entity. And so the, the first. Three years of Bluebeam. [00:12:00] It was step one. How do you create a high quality, easy to generate drawing out of that, that CAD application? So
for the first three years, our, our, our product was push button PDF for AutoCAD and push button PDF for SOLIDWORKS.
And, and that really, um, helped to get the industry over the hump of going from paper to CAD. to paperless. I mean, it sounds so trite now. It sounds like, oh, that, that's cute, you know, but, but I mean, that really, it was a big issue. The amount, I mean, the, the amount of money that was spent on document sets, you know, on, on any project, you typically would have to do You know, three to five to ten different release sets of those 500 seat sheet stacks of drawings of large format drawings and then heaven forbid you get revisions and then you got to print those out and integrate them.
And so it was a really, [00:13:00] um, tedious, expensive process that, uh, we were helped. Helped not only the cost of printing paper, um, but also just. Lowering the friction of being able to get information from the designer, the, the creator out to the people that were actually building, um, being able to lower that, that time, uh, hurdle, if you will, because it was able to get transmitted out so much quicker.
Yeah,
Evan Troxel: to me like, okay, if I've got AutoCAD and you've got AutoCAD, no big deal, send me an AutoCAD file. But you're probably actually talking about it where they didn't have a seat of whatever that app was, whether it was SolidWorks or AutoCAD, right? And so they needed another way to view this stuff without purchasing an expensive seat of mechanical CAD software.
Don Jacob: exactly. Like being able to, uh, yeah, that was exactly it, you know, so that whether I'm in, you know, my, my browser and I can. Uh, be able [00:14:00] to very, uh, consistently view that, that, that really was the, um, the need.
Evan Troxel: yeah. And I also think about kind of who's doing the reviews, right? It's usually the person who's been around the block a few times and knows what they're looking at, and they're not going to be the one who's like a cat operator, right? And so there's
this whole kind of learning curve of learning how to use the software, whether it's zooming and panning or, or actually using the software, it may be two different things, but still there's like this barrier to entry there.
And so just by making basically the digital drawing board version of The output so that they could review it on a monitor and scroll around multiple pages. They're not taking up a ton of desk space. Like there's, there's other things that people should be thinking of when, when we kind of go back in time, another one's file size, right?
Like these are back in the days of. Like, there were still floppy drives in computers, for sure, right? And, uh, bigger media was like CyQuest cartridges or
Zip cartridges. And if you're talking about 500 page [00:15:00] PDFs, you're talking about rather large files, right? Because in the AutoCAD, you know, you're, when you're using the CAD program, you maybe have one or two or three drawings open at a time, depending on which version of the software you're even using.
You don't have 500 sheets open. So, to be
able to combine all that into one package and send that to somebody, This is, was a game changer, right? It really was.
Don Jacob: Right. Well, and it's, um, yeah, I think there's a much bigger, broader discussion about technology adoption and how, how to move the industry forward. And, and that balance of familiar. Hey, we, we, we've got to get the project done, but let's find new ways of being able to do that more efficiently. And so again, it sounds, uh, simple now, but having that That way of working analog, the familiar touch of, of paper, but now able to [00:16:00] do it in an electronic way and then being able to benefit from doing that.
Ooh, you know, Bluebeam, you know, review. So, you know, first, you know, first thing we, we were focused on just getting the high quality dependable PDF files out. Then our, our user started saying, this is great. But now we want to be able to mark up and be able to actually do those technical type of documents, uh, markups that we can have that conversation about.
And so that's really what, what drove us to, to develop what became, uh, uh, Bluebeam, uh, Review, which is our desktop application, you know, the equivalent like Adobe Acrobat, but really focused on technical document markup. You know, the way we talk about it is that anything larger than an eight and a half by 11 sheet of paper, if you need to do a graphical markup, that's really what we've, we've tuned the application to do.
Uh, but. But taking that, helping the industry go from [00:17:00] paper to paperless, doing it in a familiar yet forward looking way, um, it's easy to, you know, to talk about, but to actually do, to get the industry forward, it's a, it's a, It's a long journey, you know, you, you think in a, in, in, you know, Oh, Bluebeam, the, you know, that old, all the, that, that 2D company, you know, there, you know, then we moved past that.
And it's like, and, you know, good or bad, that the industry, this is where we are. And I think that's really what's motivated Bluebeam, you know, mission one, get paper to paperless. And then collaborating was, was a whole next phase. Yeah. And then, you know, now we're at a really interesting time given all the, the, you know, the fact, mobile, AI, all the, the wonderful, um, technology renaissance that we're in.
And yet, it's not about the technology. And so I'm, I'm a curmudgeonly, you know, Chief Innovation Officer at Bluebeam, I'm a curmudgeonly [00:18:00] innovator. I absolutely love talking technology, love talking about all the cool stuff, but, you know, What has been the core of DNA of Bluebeam is the user on the project and getting the project done and that being first and foremost.
And how can we help make that better? Innovating one step at a time. And before you know it, you've changed the industry. And so that's really been kind of what's been our motivation for quite a while now.
Evan Troxel: I'm curious where the name came from, going back to kind of the beginning. Where's that name, Bluebeam, come from?
Don Jacob: Yeah, there's nothing magical about it. Um, we, we did, we, we, uh, spent a lot of time, uh, early on, uh, uh, trying to figure out what would be the right name. We, we ended up, you know, it really became kind of internally, you know, we, uh, uh, generated, we hired a company to [00:19:00] work with our initial marketing years, years ago at the very beginning, but ultimately, um, you know, we settled on Bluebeam because Blue, you know, the blueprint kind of the The blue aspect beam has a structural engineering kind of architectural elements to it.
And putting those two, two together, um, I think really, um, resonated with us. And we, at the time we were, you know, housed in Alliance Space Systems offices and we had, you know, some of the engineers come back and come into a room and said, Hey, there were, you know, these are the names, give us your feedback.
We did a, you know, just a little bit of a internal, um, Uh, little study and it, it just, it stuck. And it's one of those things that you think, um, those little decisions, uh, years ago and how, you know, I think what still gets, uh, get us really, really kind of pumps us up, still three of us, um, are, are still there [00:20:00] from the original days of Bluebeam to the original developers, myself, we're still there.
And I think we're still to this day. 23 years plus in, um, it just, it, it brings a joy to us to, you know, be on an airplane or, you know, see somebody using Revu or we go into, uh, our customers offices and everybody's got it. Um, and just know that that Bluebeam name has been, uh, pretty, pretty well recognized world worldwide.
And, uh, it's humbling, it's motivating. It makes us, you know, still want to. Really push, push the industry forward in, in the, the Bluebeam way, the way that we've, um, I think had, have, uh, achieved in the past.
Evan Troxel: curious like what your kind of initial minimum viable product was. We have a lot of founders, a lot of startup developers who, you know, software developers who listen to this podcast. And it's always kind of like this, you know, this quest to get something out there [00:21:00] that you can
sell to customers. Was it really like a PDF print driver for AutoCAD?
Like, tell us, tell us what, how that, how that kind of came about. Decision making went, I mean, obviously it's evolved way beyond that, but what was the initial thing that you went to market with?
Don Jacob: yeah, so the initial product was Pushbutton PDF for AutoCAD. It was a, you know, three buttons, showed up in AutoCAD and AutoCAD LT. Uh, it is effectively a, a, a print driver. Um, it, it handled batch PDF creation, but it, it really was, um, The pain point, you know, I, I think every, every, um, innovator, every, uh, entrepreneur, you're, you're solving problems, right?
You're, that, that, that's the, the, the thing that will get people to, to write a check is you're helping to solve, uh, uh, a pain and having to deal with, um, consistent, uh, PDF creation was the challenge at the time. And so we, you know, spent, um, um, [00:22:00] Three years, uh, really honing that, developing that. We, we did, uh, we actually were OEMing, um, the PDF creation out of SOLIDWORKS.
So early on, we, um, we, we worked with the SOLIDWORKS folks and, you know, had a great experience with, with, uh, with, with SOLIDWORKS and that was, um, another. Uh, path, but, and we had done, um, yeah, I think that really was, you know, kind of the, the, the main motivator. But then as, um, There's always this, uh, balance of focus and then growing the market.
And I, and I think there, there came a time when we, we probably could have spent another five plus years really honing that, um, that plugin. But obviously there, the, the window on that, um, it would prevent, you know, expansion and growth. And, and that's where as. You know, working with, with customers and, and understanding now, okay, [00:23:00] PDFs are created, um, now we want to be able to, to collaborate on them, be able to mark up with them.
It, it really drove, uh, an internal effort to say, okay, well, maybe let's, um, let's see if we can, you know, render PDF. Let's see if we can, uh, you know, provide a way of marking up that just isn't out there. And I think there was a, it felt like, uh, you know, there was a little bit of a R& D effort internally, and we, we proved ourselves that we could do it.
And that motivated really our next decade of work. So, you know, 2005 up through, um, you know, really 2014, 2015, we, we had been, you know, developing, uh, review and, and adding capabilities. I used to, and, and it took a long time to really get it to, um, To a point where it was, Oh, we hit product market fit with that, you know, as we, I would joke, like I, Be one of the guys going out, you know, demoing, uh, you [00:24:00] work with the engineering teams.
Like my, my role was head of engineering in, in in chief technology officer for most of the history of Bluebeam. But then, uh, when you're, you're small, you know, you're doing everything. And so part of the, the, the gig was going out and demoing the, the software and there was always this, that first release of, of, of review, you demo it and there was always this, um, interaction where.
Oh, you know, can, can it do this? Yeah. Can do, can do that. Can it do the next thing? Oh, sorry, I can't. So you go back, you, you develop, you come out with another, um, version and then, you know, there, there comes a time. Can I do this? Yeah. Can I do that? Yeah. Can I do that? Oh yeah. And let me show you one or two different ways of doing that.
And then you, you start to build, um, where you can get further into the demo before you, you can say,
Evan Troxel: you say no,
Don Jacob: Before you say no, and, but there was a magical point, you know, Review 7 in that era where it's like, Oh my goodness, this was, we, we hit it, you know, you knew, and it became [00:25:00] this, um, I used to love to do demos because it was almost like a revival, you know, sort of a thing.
Can I do this? Oh, let me show you. And then, you know, customer says, Oh, I found another way to do this. And, and, uh, I just really enjoyed that, that interaction and seeing that you're, you're, you're meeting a, a, a need. It really, um, really motivated all of, all of us. And, you know, always try to bring that back into the, um, To the office and really motivate us to do even better with that next release.
We, we, we, we, we had a joke, um, you know, review, you know, next, whatever. It's going to be the best release ever, you know, because it's always going to be, um, always better. Yeah.
Evan Troxel: one was the worst one.
Yeah.
So, so who was your initial customer set? Was it really all in the aerospace industry? I mean, you said anything larger than eight and a half by 11, and then immediately I start thinking of, okay, who's, who's, who's who? Who's printing sheets, right? And obviously architects, contractors, and things like that.
But I'm curious if you had AEC in [00:26:00] your lens, in your sites in that initial time period, or, or
where'd you, where'd you go?
Don Jacob: So it was a, it was a pivot early on. I think we, um, You know, manufacturing aerospace, it's interesting looking back to look forward now, and we're going to have a whole conversation about model based design, like it, the, the, the challenges we, um, we're facing in aerospace 25, 30 years ago, you see echoes of it, you know, here in our industry.
And I think there's a huge, huge opportunity there. But, um, but we realize that architecture, engineering, um, design A lot larger opportunity now consider when we're a plugin, you looking at, okay, well, what do we plug into there at the time, the industry was very fractured in the manufacturing world, you had pro engineer, you know, tens, hundreds of thousands of seats of software, and then you had AutoCAD.
And so realizing that, oh, well, if we're going to be a plugin initially, we want to, you know, target that, um, [00:27:00] that larger audience. Um, opportunity and our, our, uh, one of our, our original, uh, CEOs, his family was in architecture and we, we started really understanding the architecture market and we realized that there was a real need in, in that space.
And as we started to, uh, introduce and beta test, we, our first testers were architects, primarily engineering, uh, firms as the, really the creators of the, um, beta test. you know, those, those drawing sets that we're going to be built off of. And so that really is kind of where we focused on that.
Evan Troxel: Interesting. I'm curious if your early customers surprised you with the way they were using your software. I mean, did they, obviously they're asking for features.
Was there anything where you're like, what are you're doing? What in Bluebeam?
Don Jacob: all the time to this day, even, Hmm. you know, a, a funny story. It, it, it was, [00:28:00] um, it, uh, it was just one of those things like, wow, that's really a blending of analog and we went to a, uh, uh, a customer and they had the Cintiq, uh, The, those touch, um, the, the large format screens and,
Evan Troxel: Yep. Yep.
Don Jacob: and, um, they have review open and one of the, the gentlemen, one of the reviewers was saying, man, what I, what I love about your software is that, you know, I've got all these markup tools.
I can, you know, uh, uh, place them on, on the drawing. And then when I need to draw a straight line, um. I just take my T square, and I put it on the edge of this, uh, Cintiq, and I can draw a straight line, and it's like, oh my goodness, this, um, that's a very unique application of, um, of Bluebeam, but, you know, but I, I think, you know, we're, um,
our software, it's in an odd, we're in an, weird, not, I won't say weird, but it's a bit of a unique [00:29:00] situation, where, um, It's like, like Word or Excel. It has such a broad usage. It's used across design, engineering, build very deeply, owners, operators, out completely outside of the industry, shipbuilders and in all sorts of other applications.
And so we, we, we don't force a workflow. We enable however you want to work to be able to get that, that, that. design that project completed again. Um, I think it's a common theme. And so, you know, that, that's a, you know, kind of a funny example, but then, you know, we're, we're used of all things with, with, um, with review and studio, we're, we're used for poll planning.
You know, people found a great way to be able to use, um, you know, set up a studio session, which is the thing that enables us to collaborate on, on drawings and, and, and projects. And then you can lay out and, and poll plan. Your project or phases [00:30:00] of the project. Did we design our software to be used like that?
Absolutely not, but it's an amazing application. And so I think we've always, um, had those examples of, you know, our, our, our customer is surprising and motivating us to, um, to think a little, little different Outside the box, right? Yeah. Yeah. I remember when Steve Jobs announced the iPad, right? And he's sitting on the leather chair on the white stage and he pulls out this iPad and like, he's reading the paper. Right. And, and it was interesting because they had like some ideas about how you would use this device. But I'm pretty sure during that presentation, he's like, we have no idea how you're going to use this really.
Evan Troxel: We have some ideas, but, but we don't know all the ways you're going to use it. And we don't know, he's talking to software developers too. Like what. What would you do with this thing? Right? And I
think that there's something really neat about technology when it comes from this initial seed of an idea.
And then your customers are taking that and [00:31:00] saying, what if, and how about, and well, I figured out this weird work around that does this really cool thing that solves my problem. And then you can like take that and build it back in so that more people can benefit from it. But there's, there's this neat give and take that happens with software over its evolution, you know?
Don Jacob: Yeah. And we, we, we internally, we, we've talked about it, how, um, yeah, as the company grows and evolves, you always have new, new, um, new people joining and, you know, how, how do you kind of carry forward
Evan Troxel: Hmm. Yeah.
Don Jacob: company, you know, the, the soul, if you will, of, of Bluebeam and, and one of the, the discussion points has always been, it's like, um, it's like two strands of that helix, a DNA helix.
You've got us. And then you've got the customer. Like, we're intertwined and working together to really advance the work that's done. We're software developers and we've been, um, just invited to come [00:32:00] on these amazing, amazing projects over the last couple of decades. And it's moving when I think about it.
And the relationships we've been able to build and these people doing amazing things. And. that we, we, we cherish that. We recognize a certain sense of responsibility to when we develop software, like people depend on our software to be able to get their job done. And we don't take that lightly. And it, it just been such a neat journey over, over, you know, this time period.
And it's still, you know, 23 years in now, I'm still. Excited with the work that we do every day, the cool stuff that we're doing now, and you know, what's on the horizon, um, it's really just been an amazing experience so far. And every day it's different, and it evolves, and it changes, and the industry changes, and the [00:33:00] complexity of projects changes, it's just such a dynamic environment that, um, how we can help.
be a part of solving that is, uh, really the, the fun part of, um, of the journey. So,
Evan Troxel: I've, I want to talk about what's on the horizon and where you're going, but I want to also, before we do that, talk about this evolution that's happened. So you've got, you go from print driver to then you, you've, you've dropped some hints about, you know, review and studio and things like that. But maybe you can take us through kind of the medium version of that as well to just talk about how the software has grown up over the last 23 years.
Yeah.
Don Jacob: yeah, so, I mean, you know, plug in, um, and then, uh, we developed review, the, the desktop application and, uh, that really, uh, there, there were kind, there were, there were a lot of things that we were So a core combination of [00:34:00] capabilities that I think really made it stand out. So having the tool chest, you know, the way to be able to define your own custom markups that you could share within your organization.
So, um, you know, people, you know, people use this for, you know, building out, um, uh, almost using it like a CAD application where you can design effectively these stencils to be able to represent markups. And then, uh, extending, you know, that, that graphical markup, there's, there's a graphical representation on the page.
And then there is the, something we've introduced is, it's actually, it's in, Acrobat to the markup list, but really pushing that forward. So with every graphical element that you have and you can customize, you know, you can make your own symbology that you can share within an organization, share across a project.
There's a mini database of information that resides in that markup. So that [00:35:00] markup has a, it has an author, it has a date that it was placed. I can, you, Give measurement properties to it. You can set status. You can set custom statuses on it. We, we have examples of using our software to shut down a, um, uh, an oil rig where, uh, as you change, you know, the valve, the valve goes from open to close, it goes from, you know, green to red and we know who did that, that shut, shut off and when.
And so you can start to really build in elements of workflow. within that, that drawing that you can then capture and be able to preserve as to, you know, what, what was, you know, what, what were you attempting to accomplish on the, um, on the project or the design. And so that, uh, the, the, the tool chest, the markup list, and, you know, being able to use those in, in concert, and then being able to do the, um, the document, um, uh, properties, being able [00:36:00] to, you know, use things like visual search to be able to find, uh, graphical elements on the drawing in addition to text is all this unique combination of, of, uh, capabilities that really shaped the next decade or so of, um, of our technology developing it.
Really became, you know, kind of the, the, the, the cycle that we were on after that, that, that creation challenge, feel like we had kind of licked that and it's like, okay, well, now, now let's make this, this, um, this, this back and forth interaction work very, um, uh, efficiently.
Evan Troxel: It seems like the starting to focus on really pro users and like power users, right? Like that's one thing that's always struck me about Bluebeam over something like Acrobat, right? Was like, The tool chest is a good example, doing batch editing, right, to very large PDFs, being able to number all your sheets or apply your stamps or do, remove something off of every sheet that, you know, we've [00:37:00] spent so much time creating this PDF.
It's like, well, it's faster just to fix it in Bluebeam than it is to go back and fix it in the CAD and then spit it all back out again, right? And, and I'm curious, like, did you always have that focus on kind of the power user? It feels like you do with, because it looked like a pro app, right? It had the.
The dark interface from very early on. And, and it just felt kind of like this really cool UI. I mean, it was, it was definitely cool back. I don't know if people still feel like it's cool, but it was definitely, you felt like a power user when you were using this app, it felt very CAD like, obviously you have this strong linkage to, to CAD as well.
So, so tell me, tell me about kind of who, who you idealized as your user. Were you really pushing for that pro power user? Mm hmm.
Don Jacob: Absolutely. We built high, very, very deep, deep features, but, uh, uh, another part of, of how we thought about [00:38:00] review is also, you know, going back to the, the days, make it, you know, help, help the industry is in as broad of a way, get comfortable with paperless. Um, you know, how do we make it simple? And so our interface, um, We, we have profiles where you can set it up very, you can tune it to that power user.
We have the, you know, the Uber, um, uh, way of turning on every bell and whistle that, that's in, in our software. But then you can also really bring it down to like a reader like, um, uh, interface. So there's a lot of flexibility in, uh, how you can make the, the, the interface, um, appear. So, you know, a lot of our larger customers, they'll, they'll, they'll, you know, push out a profile for more of the administrative user, kind of the, you know, the, the light user versus the, the, the, um, you know, the deeper power users and, and that, that can be the standard view.
So you're not, you know, just inundated with, with [00:39:00] buttons out the wazoo, but, um, you can very much configure and control. That, that look and feel depending on the type of person that's using it. And I know that's something that we, we built into the software, um, fairly early because exactly that, you know, we did get feedback.
Wow, this is, it's great, but oh my goodness, there's a lot of stuff here. So how do you, how do you balance that with once again, the motivation being, we want to, We want to, we want to bring everybody on that digital transformation journey, not just, uh, the power users. That, I mean, that was a problem back in the day, you know, you, you want to get it off the, the cab jockeys, um, you know, environment.
Like, make it, make that project as accessible for as many people as possible, no matter where they are. That was really a, a, a big motivator of, um, of us. And that, that really, you know, so there was the plugin. there was review the desktop application. And then, uh, in, in the 2010 era, we introduced [00:40:00] studio, which was the, the, the way that you can dynamically collaborate no matter where you are.
So, you know, I'm, you know, here, uh, some nondescript place in Montana and you're in Oregon. We can load a, a, uh, a project set and then be able to seamlessly collaborate on that. Uh, again, I mean, this is a very common practice now, but 15 years ago it wasn't so easy to do. And it really, uh, enabled us to take that, that next step of, of elevating collaboration to a new level, going away from, you know, having to email files back and forth, having to, you know, put things on the, the, um, Uh, you said it earlier, the, the site, not the site, Sys, SysQuest drives, CyQuest drives, uh,
CyCrunch, yeah, and, and, um, and, and also the cartridges.
Yes, uh, I unfortunately lived through that too, but, um, but how do you, um, how do you, how do you [00:41:00] again, make it, you know, less friction between the people that, that have to make the decision on the projects. And that, that's really what, what motivated. The development of, uh, of studio getting, you know, everybody in that, that virtual space where you can be collaborating.
Evan Troxel: for needing collaboration, like where that came from. So obviously, I mean, there, there's this technology that, that's starting to like break into this, what we now call the cloud. I, I don't know if you, if we even referenced it being called the cloud back then, but like this idea of you hosting the drawing, or I don't, I don't remember it.
Was it on premises for the, the, the, the firm, or was it hosted by you, Bluebeam,
for was, it was hosted by us. We did have an on prem version of it too, but, uh, much broader used, um, uh, on, you know, in the cloud, if you will. So.
So when you're, you're talking about collaboration, like, like, I'm sure you heard that a lot [00:42:00] from people,
right? Like, especially in, in an architectural firm, right? That, that would happen just by the nature of the studio. There were drafting tables, there were monitors, whatever, whatever era you're from, there was collaboration because everybody was in the same place at the same time.
But we had consultants who would, who would publish drawings or email us files or whatever. And there was kind of this. You never knew if you had really had the most current PDF, right? Or you
never knew if you really had, because it was this one way, it was this export and it was just this snapshot in time. And then it was basically a dead document at that point, because somebody was still working on that file,
right? And, and they were going to send you a new version of it. And this started to shift that paradigm of like a living document, right? Like it still wasn't, it wasn't like bi directional. It wasn't pushing this information back and forth.
back into the CAD or the, the Revit or modeling system, but it was collaborative and it was editable and you could start to track who did what, when, and who was taking care of these issues and [00:43:00] all of these things. So we started to see this paradigm shift and I, I'm just curious, kind of like what you were hearing through all of that and how groundbreaking that was for people when it came to reviewing, marking up, uh, collaborating on drawing sets.
Don Jacob: Yeah. I mean, again, this is where, um, we, we designed it with the intent. Like we, we, the studio sessions, which was the, the idea was you, you have a, um, uh, a virtual project, you know, conference room. So you take the drawings, you put them, you know, on the wall and we could be right now meeting, you know, three people.
You know, adding, marking up and having a call and discussing, I'm adding comments and you're adding your comments and we see we're getting a track of who's doing what and when. But then, you know, after this, you know, I go home and I have a thought, oh man, I forgot to [00:44:00] mention this to Evan. Let me go hop back in the session, add this comment so tomorrow we can chat about it.
And so the idea was that, you know, you could have this, um. This space where you're putting this information, you, um, we could be. you know, synchronously at the same time collaborate or asynchronously add that information. And then it had a time period. Like we thought, you know, sessions, they, they exist for two weeks at a time, like, you know, two weeks.
That was kind of the default, the end of the day, you stop it and you finalize it. And then it goes back into, you know, your, your file system for, you know, archiving that, that discussion or that, that time period. Well, we find out, you know, people have sessions, it's exactly what you said. They, they end up.
Just keeping that open The session the whole the whole time, you know, they they get a new revision They swap out the new new version and it becomes the the live You know project [00:45:00] snapshot of what's going on now I Is that the right thing to do is? We're not, again, we're, we're not going to judge on that.
We were enablers for helping that project to get done on time and, and, and faster. And so, you know, giving, creating the technology, meeting the need, and then letting our, our users and customers decide what they want to do with that. I mean, that, that's where, you know, you, you surprise us and tell us how you find what's most fitting for your, your project.
I mean, the other part of it is that, um, the unique part about our, our industry perspective is, um, you know, in the manufacturing aerospace, you, um, you know, a, a, a Boeing or you have a big auto manufacturer, they're building up a very, you've got the same players, you've got a very deep [00:46:00] supply chain and building up a highly rigorous, um, um, process.
You have a, a, a, a, a, a, a very well defined path. Every, every project we do, it's new, right? Like a building is only going to be designed and built once. A roadway will only exist, One way and every product is going to be different. Are there similarities? Absolutely, but it is unique and this is to me What was what's really interesting about like JPL we used to always say we fly our prototypes like a mission you know, you go to Mars or you put a You know, they're working finally, you know, literally, this is 25 years ago, we were talking about it, um, this, uh, submarine that basically goes on Europa, um, you know, every mission is so different with all the, the different parameters that at the time, like, I see a lot of [00:47:00] similarities to, you know, how much do you invest in the CAD and the processes because it, because everything may be different, the requirements change.
And, you know, what we've, what happened, you know, back in the day, I know it's different now, but, um, you know, you, you, you had to put the spacecraft on the launch pad to hit a launch window. And so the joke was you do the design, you get the parts built, and then you deliver an apple box of all the marked up red line drawings as your actual configuration control, uh, document for what actually went into that spacecraft.
And so, you know, premier stuff, right? You're putting, uh, uh, uh, spacecraft on other planets and orbiting planets. That's what you do. And I think there's a lot of equivalence here where every, every project is different and giving people flexibility to. to collaborate, to, you know, bring in those players, whether, you know, the design team, the engineering teams, the, [00:48:00] you know, the thousands of people and players that are involved.
How do we provide a very easy to spin up, tear down, capture a record of that project getting done. The technology is not the thing we're shooting after. It's getting that project done as efficiently as possible. So.
Evan Troxel: Yep.
Don Jacob: That was a little preachy, sorry.
Evan Troxel: No, that was great. That was fantastic. So, so let's talk about where things are headed and what you're excited about. I mean, it's, you've been at Bluebeam for 23 years and you say you still show up and you're excited to do things. Obviously, there's There's something hanging out there that, that you're excited to show up to the office to work on.
So, um, I know you guys have made some acquisitions recently, you know, fairly recently. And, and so obviously we're maybe seeing some, some stars off in the horizon here of, of where you're headed. But I'd love to hear you talk about those now because this is still like a heavily under development product, right?
And you're, you're still cranking forward.
Don Jacob: Yeah, [00:49:00] heavily underdeveloped, plenty of opportunity, I mean, you know, the industry, uh, it's been, um, there's so much vitality, so much opportunity, you know, exactly for that reason I talked about, where you have, um, so many different players, the, the, it's evolving so quickly with the type of projects, the, the, um, this ever changing environment, the, the, the, you know, world concerns, you know, building more sustainably, all of these factors, you know, we, we, again, as an industry, we have a, a real responsibility.
Um, you know, there is so much, so much opportunity. We, you know, so yes, we, we be about 10 years ago, we became part of the Nemechek family. And so, uh, again, you know, Bluebeam, where, you know, I think we, we're, we're focused in the, the build division in that, you know, really helping to bring the, the design [00:50:00] and the, you know, kind of sitting in the middle of design, build, operate, um, we have such a broad user base.
I think we, we touch on all of those, um, different aspects and we, um, We have a lot to do in all those areas. And so to, to, to help, uh, help do that. Yeah, we've, we've, uh, we as Nemechek make investments in, in, in different, uh, startup, um, programs. We have a, uh, uh, a corporate venture program that we've been, you know, fairly active in.
It's been exciting. I've been, you know, part of that, uh, for a while is actually involved a bit at the Nemechek level in some of the, um, venture work that we've been doing. Um, but then we, you know, recently Nemechek and Bluebeam, we, we acquired, um, GoCanvas. And so that really is bringing the, the field, uh, you know, the, the field environment into, um, into the forefront.
So we're [00:51:00] getting the design build aspect. We've built great solutions there. We, we have a mobile, you know, way of being able to work with, um, uh, mobile and, and, and web. We're, we're, we're developing that technology and where GoCanvas has really helped in, in different, uh, specific areas. Like they have something, site docs and GoCanvas for, uh, site safety, Um, and being able to really just get a easily be able to track what's going on in the field.
You know, that's an area that as you bring the design to the reality and make it as easy to, to, to bring the two together and be able to capture as efficiently, as quickly as possible. I think that's where GoCanvas is really going to help, you know, fill a much needed. Uh, niche that, um, that's needed. So, so I think Bluebeam and us working together, I think over time, you're going to see, you know, I think some really, some really interesting, [00:52:00] um, you know, partnering there going forward.
Evan Troxel: It's interesting from kind of a data capture standpoint, right? Because not everything like Bluebeam is really graphical, right?
And you're also tracking kind of some metadata that goes along with all those graphic, those stamps, those markups, all those things. There's like the, who did it and when, and what are the properties and all those things, but, but there's this other side of, I think the go canvas thing really is like, you're basically dropping these fields of, for data capture into a form.
Let's just call it for now. And. It enables you to kind of build this database of information that is linked to something else. Is that, is that really how you see this working? I, I'm, I'm curious just like where, where does this actually go potentially in the future if we just had to throw some darts at the board?
I, I know you guys have, I'm sure you have this all figured out. But, but from a user's standpoint, like
what are we, what are we going to see come out? What are we, what are you thinking is going to happen with this collaboration?
Don Jacob: Yeah, I think you definitely hit on it. You know, it's [00:53:00] the. And I'm by far not the first person to say this, um, you know, this evolution, um, and expansion of, you know, data and information is really the underpinning for, for that, you know, where, and, and this is, you want, there's a different aspect to it when you think about it in terms of dimensions, right?
You've got the, the two dimensional drawings, you've got the, the 3d models. Of course, this is, Models, model, you know, model based design, behavioral, there's many dimensions even to the, the type of models and that we're, we're, we're, we're working with, but underlying all of that is capturing the data, capturing the information as close to the source as you can, whether that's design side, whether that's in the field, on a mobile device, like that That experience of being able to, to do that in, again, is least of a [00:54:00] friction way of doing it, I think is a real, real challenge, you know, so, you know, to your point earlier, you know, people, you know, starting up, you know, startup entrepreneurs, um, you know, kind of a perspective on that.
Like, it's easy to talk about it, but to actually do it. That's the challenge. And, and I think is again, as you know, early days of Bluebeam, you know, making that analog to digital transition, you want to make it as straightforward, as simple to do as possible. And so you have different mechanisms for doing that.
And like with, yeah, GoCanvas, you know, primarily running on mobile devices. There's a lot of, um, technology sitting on those mobile devices. Also. out in the field, it's a freaking war zone. You know, when you, when you go, I can't tell you how many job sites I've been in and it's just amazing to see it, it, it, not that I've, you know, luckily not been in, in, in, in a true war environment, but you, you've got, you [00:55:00] know, cranes dropping, you know, steel beams, you've got all of these, you know, people and it's loud and we're all wearing, you know, PPE equipment and how do you make it easy?
To situationally aware the people that have to make the decisions on the project that need to capture the, the, the status, the, what's going on, you know, there's some real opportunity there. And I think GoCanvas is, is, um, you know, a part of that. Bluebeam, I think we, we still have a really, So that's a really interesting part to play.
Um, there, you know, how do we, how do we bring that, that, that, that project data out into the field and field back working with GoCanvas? There's, I think, some really interesting opportunities there.
Evan Troxel: Yeah, I mean, the whole idea of having to, I mean, having the opportunity to capture it at the edge with the person in the environment versus, you know, a phone call or an email and somebody translating that data, [00:56:00] right? Between what, what am I hearing? What am I seeing? Is, is a different thing than the person who's actually there putting that information into a system potentially, right?
Like
there could be a very big difference there. That whole. I mean, there's data loss in those transmissions of, like, where I'm trying to graphically or verbally or written communication does lead to somebody having to translate that in some way, and there's potential for data loss in that situation. So by putting the ability into the hands of the person who's closest to the scene of that happening seems like a big way to get, um, Over that, get through those challenges of potential data loss.
Don Jacob: Right. Great way. I love the way you said that, that being able to get it as close, um, to the, you know, where, where the, the situation, if you will, is. And then also the, um, The multimodal form of that information, you know, I think we in the industry [00:57:00] for a long time, it's like, oh, the world's going to models and, you know, when are we going to get away from, from, you know, drawings is it's a, it's a, it's, it's a bad thing.
It's a snapshot in time and all these reasons. And I don't ever. I'm not going to tell, you know, a project engineer what they need to get the project done. I don't think, you know, it's a little presumptuous of us in, in, in technology to, to do that, but to partner with, um, with the customers. Um, I think that's really the way we, we, we advance.
Yeah, I think it's not an, an, an, or, but it's an, and, you know, how, how do we. You know, you get this information and then you present it, whether it's, you know, a, a, a, a field that shows up, you know, on your phone, whether it's part of a drawing, a model, that, that information together to give me the contextual understanding that I need [00:58:00] or my team, we need to make to get, The issue resolved, the project done faster.
That's the, the, the core of it. And so, you know, that's an area that we're exploring, you know, with, with Bluebeam, um, We, we opened up our, our labs environment, um, earlier this year to start to, uh, invite people in to look at some of the work we're doing with that, blending the 2D and, and, and 3D, um, uh, environments.
You know, if we take, you know, the drawings and then we can see them in a, in a 3D mode, you know, we orient the, the different drawing views, kind of reconstruct the project in 3D. You say, well, that's weird. Don't you have the models. It's like, well, you don't necessarily, you know, you think about that poor, you know, construction administrator, they may not get the model and, but they have the drawings.
And how do we, how do we start to highlight different ways to assemble what the information they have so that they can look at it in a new way to be able to [00:59:00] make the decision. Uh, another thing we're calling, um, uh, connected drawings, being able to relate the model and drawing information, but using the drawing.
as the window into the model, you know, flipping it a little bit. Everybody, you know, we, we, we think the model's intuitive. Yeah, sort of,
Evan Troxel: If you know how to read it,
Don Jacob: if you know how to read it, right. And, and so again, you know, we're not, we're not going to force away. We're going to offer hypotheses. We're going to offer, you know, new ways of engaging with your, your project information, your project data, your drawings, your models, and then.
That's when we take that, that next step, you know, collaborate, collaboration elevated even more now, uh, you know, we did that from paper to paperless, paper, and then into studio, and now I think we're at the cusp of that, that next era when you, when you talk about new ways to be able to interact with the, the different dimensional data, [01:00:00] um, and, and, and project information.
And then, oh yeah, that, uh, he heard, uh, AI, that the term is that,
Evan Troxel: everywhere. So yeah, talk, talk about what, what you guys are doing with, with, on the AI side of things.
Don Jacob: yeah. And I, and I think with AI, it really, the, the approach we're, we're, we're taking is I think very, uh, true to our, to our approach in the past. Like how, how do we again, help move the industry forward. How do we responsibly introduce new technology in ways that help the project get, gets done, to get done?
Um, We're, we're taking a very mindful approach to that. So, you know, some of the, the things in, in, in general sense, you know, an assistive, uh, approach is really, [01:01:00] uh, how, how we're, we're, we're introducing, starting to introduce some of the, the capabilities. Um, So, uh, as an example, something we introduced, um, uh, earlier this year, There's a capability we've had in review for a long time now.
Drawing, overlay, and compare. So you have,
Evan Troxel: I was gonna, I was gonna bring this up later because I was gonna ask you what your favorite feature is and
I will still do that, but this was always one of mine. It was just like, Talking about this constant revision that's happening, right? And it's like, Oh, I got a new version of that sheet, A3. 2 or whatever. And what changed? It's like, it's all black and white, right? And so this was an amazing way to just see the differences between these two drawings. It would color code the, the changes and things. I thought that was so cool. So I'm glad you brought it up.
Don Jacob: you know, We took, again, this is something where we took two approaches to it. Where you [01:02:00] can overlay the drawing and have it automatically cloud, Good. You know, automagically we used to always say, you know, cloud, and then you could do a report after. And so people would use that for design reviews all the time.
Hey, let me Rev A, Rev B, cloud, export that, that report. And now we've got our design discussion. And so that's one way. And then there's be the, the visual, Yes. uh, red green, you know, just, and, and, and so that's great. And it's cool when Rev A and Rev B, the drawing. the, the, the particular floor plan is registered on the face of the drawing between revisions.
Well, that's not always the case.
Evan Troxel: Mm hmm. Mm.
Don Jacob: auto align, which is an extension of, uh, to our overlay and compare capabilities automatically finds where the, the, that floor plan or that, you know, that, that drawing element is, and then automatically lines it up so that then you can do a true. [01:03:00] comparison between the two revisions.
And so it's one of those things where it's like kind of like, no duh, like, well, why not? But, or of course, but to me, it's a really good indication of, you know, using computer vision and other techniques to really take out precious minutes out of the day. So you can focus on higher order work. So auto align is, is something that we've, um, We, we, we've introduced, um, there's some other work that will be, uh, uh, uh, rolling out, you know, early January, the little preliminary, but, you know, I think along the same lines of being able to, um, you know, just kind of a little, Just taking some of the drudgery out of the work that you're doing, uh, day in and day out, um, that work that I, I talked about earlier in our labs, you know, the, the relating the, the 2D drawings and, and connecting the models to the drawings, that's using [01:04:00] computer vision and different, uh, AI techniques for being able to register that information.
And, and so, you know, I think that this is, uh, representative of our, our, our approach. AI, there's a lot of noise. There's a, especially like on the design, you know, uh, uh, front, you know, concern about, oh, is this going to replace my, my, my, my, my job? And, and, and I think we see it as, an assistive, a way of helping you make sense of the data.
So we, we, we have two main thrusts is what we're calling intelligent drawings. And so it's this, this labs work, the auto align is, is representative of, of that, the auto align work, uh, intelligent search, you know, being able to make sense of your, your project data and have a bit more dynamic interaction with that, that data.
These are the, really the, the, the two areas that we're, um, We're focused on, but also we don't, [01:05:00] you know, as, as software providers, part of our job, not responsibility is to, um, make it so that you don't have to think about what is driving, doing this, you know, that, that we want to help make sense and act almost as a buffer between the, the technology and, you know, you doing what you're hired to do to get your job done, to get the project done.
And so how do we start to introduce some of this in a way that enhances your, your work helps you to focus on the work you want to do versus you have to do. And that's really our philosophy and our, our approach to working with that. And so,
Evan Troxel: Yeah, that's a very human centric kind
Don Jacob: Mm hmm.
Evan Troxel: point of view, perspective. And, and I'm, I'm just curious, maybe we, we wrap up. I still want to hear maybe what your favorite features are, what you, [01:06:00] what you hear from your customers. But, like, just talk about the human centric relationship side of the business and how,
I mean, I mean, obviously it's been important and it's been a focus for you, but, Is it really the driving force?
Like, how does that fit in? You know, there's a lot of software companies out there that are really seeing the AI gold rush and they're just shoving it down everybody's throat. And I mean, you guys have been around for a long time. You've built a lot of relationships. You've worked closely with a lot of customers. This is a bi directional relationship. You're feeding off them. They're getting work done with your tools. You're an enabler for them in many ways. So just, just like give us kind of the overall blue beam philosophy about people and these relationships and things. I know that that's something that you've talked about being really important in the past.
Don Jacob: Yeah, we like most people. No, um, no, absolutely. And I,
Evan Troxel: Trademark. Put that on t
Don Jacob: right. Yeah.
Evan Troxel: Yeah. You
Don Jacob: Um,
no, absolutely. And, um, I,
again, it's so many, um, it, once again, it's [01:07:00] kind of moving sometimes when I, when I really reflect on it, but it's just such, uh, in so many different ways, like Bluebeam. Internally, you know, the, the, the, the amazing people that have been with us on the journey and like this, um, the company that we were able to build collectively, it's been just an amazing experience and, and, and what, you know, over the years, people, they, they come and go, but, you know, everybody, um, Kind of being a little bit of the, the, almost like the grandfather of the company.
You always get that, um, call, Hey Don, you got a second to talk. And it's like, okay, I know what's coming up. Yeah. But, but, you know, what, what I, what I share with our, our, um, you know, people who, who move on is that, that's awesome. You know, that, that's a great, you know, like take my ask is take a little bit of what, what you've experienced here at Bluebeam and help pay it [01:08:00] forward.
And, like, when you look across the industry, like, all, there's so many people in Bluebeam. So there's many different ways to impact an industry. And, yep, you introduce the, the software, and that, that helps, and that's mission one. But then, I think there's this whole other dimension of, um, you know, the people that have come through Bluebeam's ranks, and then they're in amazing roles in developing, um, Their career in wonderful ways across the industry from startups to, you know, the old, you know, all the companies we know, and it's just, it's so fun to me to see them bringing the industry forward and knowing that we've, we've had a little bit of an interaction and able to influence a little bit about how they see the world, how they're approaching the industry.
And I feel like, you know, we all as, as vendors, as, you know, tool makers, but then also, you know, architecture firms, like it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a very big, small [01:09:00] community, um, AEC and we're doing amazing things, right? We're, we're building the world that our kids, our grandkids society is going to inhabit going forward.
And it's all like it's We all get to be part of that. And I think really stepping back, it's easy to get, you know, sucked into the day in, day out rigmarole of stuff, but like connecting with the people, realizing we're working on cool stuff like that is a big motivator. And I think we've got a, if we can keep a lot of that in our, um, frame of reference, it really, um, motivates me and motivates a lot of the, you know, people.
People are still around at Bluebeam, and I know the people that I still keep in regular contact with that have, um, uh, you know, that have gone on to other things. But then also, you know, sorry, I'm going a little long here, but, you know, I think in the other aspect on projects, you know, seeing [01:10:00] it's a team sport, right?
Innovating and building projects, all of these things, they're, they're team sports. And, you know, working together on, on these efforts. It's all about, it's all about the people. It's about the equipment, of course, it's about the materials, but people are what, what gets it brought together. And it's easy to lose sight of that, but I, I, I hope Bluebeam, we've, we've done a part of, like I said, you know, to kind of keep the, the humanity in it.
And, and maybe this is kind of, as I've talked about helping to, Lead the industry forward without losing the customer on the journey, like introducing technology in a mindful way that keeps the focus on the project and the individual on the project. It's a hard thing to do again, and there's no right answer, but I think it's easy to get sidetracked.
Um, but if you don't keep that [01:11:00] first and foremost is your North Star.
Evan Troxel: Absolutely. It's it's that as an architect, I'm in this industry to create things for people, right? Architecture for people, environments for people, experiences for people. It's not to use technology, right? I, I'm a technologist, but my, it's, that's not why. I do what I do. It happens to be how I do what I do, and I can leverage it in really interesting ways, useful, valuable ways, but that's not why we do what we do.
Right. And it sounds similar to what you're talking about here. Like you're enabling people to do the thing,
which is, is this is just a tool that you're using to help you. Do the thing, right? Like, and, and that's an important distinction to make. It's like, we don't wake up in the morning to use this piece of software, right? That's not, that's not good enough, honestly, right? And so that to me is a, a really great thing to say out loud and to remind people, because I think we can just get kind of, you know, [01:12:00] really narrowly focused on, on what we're doing on a day to day basis. And it's great to kind of take a step back and remember.
Oh yeah, like, uh, why did I get into this in the, in the beginning? Why did, why do I still show up to this? And, uh, to kind of take stock and really think about the bigger. Vision and values that happen to be the, the actual thing leading us down the path rather than, than these other things that we kind of get stuck on day to day, because they're
sticky, like they are
right now.
We step in stuff all the time. Right. Um, so just, just, I'm glad that we kind of ended with that. I actually. Don't want to end with that. I want to just hear like, what are the favorite things that, that are, you know, features,
you know, of
of these tools that, that, I mean, you've got your favorites, you know, what do you, and what do you hear from a few customers?
I know we don't make turning this into a long thing, but, but like, there's definitely some cool things that, that the software
Don Jacob: Yeah. Um, yeah, I, I think, you know, the, um, my, [01:13:00] the nerdiness of me really comes out here, but, you know, the, one of my favorite features when we introduced, uh, curved annotations, you know, bezier curves, you know, the ability to. You know, uh, mark a curved area. That was a big deal. Um, I have always liked that.
That was something that where we We've actually been part of the PDF ISO standard committee for a long time now, and that was, you know, something we we've advocated introducing into the standard and so when we got that, um, in there, I always thought that was cool and, you know, all the poor landscape engineers that nothing's ever straight and, you know, we went from boxes to curves.
And so I think that was a really fun. Uh, thing when we, when we introduced that, um, we, we, we introduced something years ago, um, a few years ago now, um, called Dynamic Fill, like where you, it, it, it's almost like a video game where you very quickly need to, um, uh, find, uh, Uh, an area of a room, uh, is an example [01:14:00] where, and everything, you know, a lot of times it, it can be tedious if you have to pick the edges to, to get that area or, and this, it uses this, you know, a way that where you drop effectively a paint bucket and it kind of dynamically fills in the space and then you can very quickly do a perimeter area measurement, that sort of a thing, and just these things where it just, you know, Fun to, to use and, and there's that, that delight factor.
One thing that we talk about in Bluebeam, like this, this, you know, people use Bluebeam because, not because they have to, but because they want to. And, and like, when, when we hear that and like the, this amazing customer response, like we love Bluebeam, you know, talking about a little earlier, animated, like, you know, seeing it on everybody's computer.
You know, in an office, um, and the, the positive reaction, um, because it's the how, again, you know, how, how do you get people to get comfortable using an application? And then [01:15:00] even more, how do you make people want to use it? We've always had a way of, um, you know, Walt Disney always talked about plussing, you know, how do we plus this?
How do we take an experience and make it a little better? Um, we didn't even get into this. Um, a huge, uh, fan of Walt Disney and just like entertainment technology and computer graphics and the history of that there could have a whole follow on about that, but But the idea of, you know, making these easy to Delightful to use is, has been kind of another theme.
So, um, yeah. You know, the be eight Curves, a dynamic fill visual search is, is, you know, something where, you know, I could just grab a rectangle and automatically see where all those elements are. Those are probably some of my, my, um, uh, favorites if you will. What about yours?
Evan Troxel: Yeah. I, well, the, the compare one was the
one that really like formed that thought. I, I always thought that and just again, like you, you said, I'm going to get, this is like, it shows your nerdier side. [01:16:00] Right. But being like using computers for what computers are really good at, right. Like
the whole batch. Application of something to 500, a thousand sheets and changing something. It was like, you know, I grew up in the day of early visualization and rendering where it would take 18 hours to do our 3d rendering. Right.
and and then what happened if you made a change? Well, you went back and re rendered it.
Well, we quickly learned how to use Photoshop because it was so much faster to tweak colors or just paint something in, in Photoshop and not have to re render. Right? And, and so it became like this power tool and, and I really feel like that with, with tools like Bluebeam as well, right? It's like you're applying, I do batch processing stuff to text all the time.
I mean, I have a podcast, we do transcriptions. I do
all kinds of stuff where I'm going through and formatting and. Multiple documents and database stuff. And, and it just, you feel like a, like you're actually operating computers when you're doing that, right? Because they're so good at doing that kind of thing.
So I love that kind of stuff when it comes, [01:17:00] even with graphical applications, like Bluebeam, being able to just plow through a set of documents and make modifications to everything. You really feel like a power user when you're doing stuff like that.
Um, but you also have this layer of like artistic tools and, you know, as an, uh, growing up in the day of, you know, hand redlining things, right, with an actual red pen on a, you know, like you're, you can, you can still do that, but digitally now,
and, and so I appreciate that, that layer of things in these tools as well.
So I think there's a lot to love about it. I'd really do feel like this application sits on the list of. Software I like to use for a lot of people, right? And not just personally, but for a lot of people. And there's only a handful of, of applications out there that I think really fall into that category.
So kudos to you and thank you for telling the Bluebeam story today. This has been a really great conversation.
Don Jacob: Cool. Thank you. I had fun. Appreciate it. Uh, the time.