164: ‘The Technology in Architecture Practice (TAP) Knowledge Community’, with Ryan Cameron

164: ‘The Technology in Architecture Practice (TAP) Knowledge Community’, with Ryan Cameron

Evan Troxel: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Troxel podcast. I'm Evan Troxel. In this episode, I welcome Ryan Cameron. Ryan is the digital practice leader for CMBA Architects. In this episode, we discuss the recent AI focused Technology and Architecture Practice, also known as TAP, Symposium that happened at the AIA National Conference in Washington, D. C. Ryan's going to share some insights from the symposium that was headlined by keynote speakers Phil Bernstein and Mehdi Norbakish, who was also on the podcast previously, and provides an explanation of what these knowledge communities are and how they fit into the larger AIA. Ryan is the 2024 AIA TAP Chair, so he knows what he's talking about.

We also talk about the origins and evolution of TAP, their mission, their annual symposium, their online forums, and future initiatives aimed at supporting small and [00:01:00] medium sized architecture firms, what TAP is doing in the growing intersection between technology and architecture, the importance of sharing across the profession, how TAP's volunteers are leading the charge in this community, and some exciting new opportunities for innovation grants being offered by TAP. Before we jump into the conversation, please help the podcast by subscribing on both YouTube and in your favorite podcast app to let me know that you're a fan. And if you'd like to receive an email when episodes are published with all of the links and other information from the episode, you can sign up at trxl.co. You can also directly support the show by becoming a member at the site as well. So as always, thank you so much for listening and I hope that you find value in this episode. And so now without further ado, I bring you my conversation with Ryan Cameron.​

[00:02:00] I am joined today by Ryan Cameron. Ryan, welcome to the podcast, great to have you.

Ryan Cameron: Yeah, no, this is great. Thanks. Thanks so much, Evan, for having me.

Evan Troxel: We just saw each other in Washington, D. C. at the TAP Symposium that happened, and that was like an all day event. That was the day prior to the actual conference kickoff, I believe, if I, if I got my timeline right. So, um, maybe we could start there and, and just talk about what TAP is before we get into maybe how that symposium went.

Because I know, Event planning is hard. I've

done it

Ryan Cameron: yeah, we'll talk

Evan Troxel: only imagine. Yeah, I can imagine what you went through to create an all day event with, I mean, a couple hundred people were there for that, so it was a fantastic turnout and fantastic content shared during that. I especially Um, the keynote speakers were just incredible.

So anyway, let, let's rewind a little bit. And, um, actually even before we talk about TAP, let's just talk about you and maybe you can give us your [00:03:00] origin story and your trajectory through the AEC tech side of things.

Ryan Cameron: Oh, Yeah. Um, so I, I think a lot of folks might know me from speaking at AU or

back in the day it was called RTC or those, those types of things. Um, but yeah, my, my goal in life was to become an architect. And so that's what I went to school for it in Nebraska. Um, I went to college with, I think a lot of people are familiar with like, uh, uh, Nate Miller, um, of Proving Ground and, uh, maybe Dave Patera of, of DeRofus. Um, and so. A couple of us, you know, took the technology route, it seems like, and, um, I am still practicing architecture. I'm stamping drawings, doing specs, all that fun stuff, but I also kind of do this whole technology thing on the side, too. Um, I think a lot of folks know me from back in my days at maybe DLR Group, but now I'm with CMBA Architects as their digital practice leader. And so that's just a fancy way of saying I'm here to help modernize the practice. [00:04:00] Um, and so, let's see, I've been licensed for, I don't know, 13 years, been in the biz for 23 years. Um, so, yeah, I've, I've gotten to know a lot of folks, and it's just an incredible community, and I'm really excited to share more about TAP, um, today, because it's, it's super important, and I don't think a lot of people know about TAP.

So, yeah.

Evan Troxel: Yeah.

let's jump into that part. Uh, and, and maybe you can explain your role there and kind of how that side of it works as well, because there, there is kind of the organization part of it and, and anybody who's an AI, a member can participate in that. But also there's just like this, like the structure of TAP and how it works and how long people are, um, you know, committed to it when they're involved.

And there's that whole side of it as well, which I would love to talk about so that people get a full understanding of what TAP is and how it's. Helping the profession.

Ryan Cameron: Yeah. Yeah. Who are we? Why are we here?

What is TAP? So, yeah, no, I'm

glad you asked. Um, so [00:05:00] TAP, Technology and Architecture Practice is, is one of over a dozen, maybe even two dozen AIA knowledge communities out of all the, uh, something like 52 community groups that the AIA has. So I think depending on what you focus on in architecture, I feel like most people know about maybe like the COTE, um, Knowledge Community, or the COTE group, I

try to

pronounce both ways,

Committee on

the Environment, the Academy of Architecture for Health, Project Delivery, Practice Management. So, TAP is the only one, well one, that has ever had a conference at the larger, like, national AIA conference. Number two, the only one that holds a symposium every year. And so formally, we called it Building Connections Congress. Um, so we're really thankful to have that opportunity. I feel like we do a really good job at it.

We draw a lot of folks, um, for a number of years. It was just hosted at the D. C. headquarters and we were limited to, I think, a hundred folks. But now [00:06:00] we're basically whatever, whatever we can fill. And usually we're 200, 300 folks,

um, attending every year. So it's, yeah, at a high level where it fits into the broader AIA national organization. Um, and so, yeah, so a knowledge community, that's, that's what we are, we're, we're. Uh, component of, of the IA, but why are we here, Evan?

That's, Yeah

so

at

the TAP, yeah, we strive to provide like world class resources that improve designers experience in learning about new technology. So we've got the online forum, um, we hold the symposium every year. We're, we want to be that resource hub. We're, we're, you know, trying every year to, to bring more information, more knowledge to everybody, have conversations about technology. Um, And we do this by building a community that focuses on the value of sharing insights and managing knowledge and discovering the emerging trends, um, with the future of practice. And right now we have roughly 15, [00:07:00] 600 subscribers, if you will, people

that,

that sign on for

the, the TAP forum online.

So we feel like that

represents a pretty good chunk of the overall 100, 000 or so. Um, members, uh, these are just the folks that are a little bit, maybe a little bit more technology focused and want to see, you know, how to improve the, the business from that angle.

Evan Troxel: So your mission, like, as you stated, is basically to provide exposure of new ideas, technology, new ways of doing things to the broader AIA community. And I feel like, you know, being part of larger firms, as you were with DLR and you are currently, and when I was digital practice leader at HMC Architects, like, we have access to resources that a lot of small and medium firms don't, right?

We were part of the large firm round table, large firm. Uh, just automatically segments that into a certain group, right? And that's

not the majority of the AIA, right? The majority of the AIA, so something like over 80 percent is small firms that, that make up the AIA. So [00:08:00] that's a lot of people who are underrepresented when, when it comes to.

technology sharing, things like that. And obviously resources are also more scarce in smaller firms. I would, I would just venture to guess. Um, I don't know budget numbers or anything, but so, so TAP really becomes kind of an all access. Anybody who has an interest or wants to be included, just opts in as an AIA member to that.

Right.

Ryan Cameron: Yeah. Yeah. It's free to join. There's no, there's no additional charge or anything like that.

Just,

um, jump on the forum and post a question. We try to get back to you as soon as we can. And in your first year, and I'll, I'll mention this later, but your first year, the first year of your five years, we, we try to have that person monitor the conversations and keep, keep that active. Um, in a sense, uh, to, to help folks who are maybe struggling, just have a question about, you know, what, what software does what, how much should it cost, uh, how long should I expect,

who do I ask for training, [00:09:00] um, yeah, just, there, there could be a million questions, and we'll, we'll, we'll talk about this here later, because I, I, I feel like, um, uh, the small firm exchange, which is also a component, um, we formed a group here at, at TAP, um, last year, and, um, I formed a group I'm in charge of it, I guess. Um, and we want to, we want to get out a survey. So we're going to work with National AIA to kind of come up with a survey of like, what are your questions? Um, and then Tesla, uh, Collier with HMTV, she's on the, on the committee with me. Um, she's been super helpful at, at helping get that move forward too. So that's, that's something to look forward to, um, that, that's coming.

We want to understand what is going on at small firms and how TAP can better serve. Um, we're volunteers by the way, a hundred percent unpaid, but we, we still know, I just deep down, I feel like we can do better and we need to do better. And so that's, that's one angle that, that, you know, [00:10:00] I'm here for and I'm in my halfway through my third year on the tap board.

So I want to make sure that this becomes a full thing every year to help keep small firms under a hundred, granted ten and under. And 11 to 100 is small and medium, but we want to make sure that group is represented, because as you mentioned, it's something like 80 percent of firms in the country are under 100, well

under

100.

Evan Troxel: Right. Yeah. Probably, probably less than 10, right? So

oftentimes leaders in those firms are wearing many, many hats, right? And so technology can be a very small hat

when it comes to what, what they have time for with all the other clients and project deadlines. And you know, the, they're, they're dealing with submittals and emails and all these other things.

And that becomes quite, quite a burden. So yeah, it seems appropriate to reach out and ask them there. What they are interested in [00:11:00] hearing more about and what kinds of questions they have, because I can imagine that they have very similar questions to a lot of other people. I always found this even in the large firm.

It's like, are you dealing with this? Are you struggling with this? It's like everybody raises their hands. Yep. Even though you feel like you're dealing with a lot of this stuff in isolation. You're totally not. It's just firms don't really reach out and talk to other firm owners about these kinds of things that often or other technology leaders.

It's like only during these conferences or symposiums is when that really happens at a, at a much higher frequency, right? So creating, I mean, it seems like everybody's connected all the time, right? So it shouldn't be that hard to figure out ways to engage, uh, and, and get people's questions answered. But also you're going to.

I, I don't like this term, but you know, you're killing multiple birds with one stone, right? Every, lots of people have the same question, right? It's so, so by answering somebody's question, you're going to help a lot of people out. And it seems, seems like this shouldn't, this should be a no brainer. There's easy to do.[00:12:00]

Ryan Cameron: Yeah. Yeah. And so we just kind of want to help monitor the development of technology and keep those conversations, discussions going. And then, like I said, provide resources, and actually AIA California came up with an absolute dynamite resource on their website. It's kind of like a, like a toolkit. It's like

you

pick the size of your

firm, you pick what area of practice, marketing, design, um, another pull down, and then you pick, um, um, something else. And then it comes up with a whole, granted it's a spreadsheet that comes back, but it comes up with a whole spreadsheet of like, here's Revit, here's cost expectations, here's, um,

you know, reviews and here's Enscape and here's the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And all of these things, it's like every software imaginable.

Here's how much, you know, you should expect to pay for Photoshop and, um, how many firms are using it. And it's just this amazing, uh, database of information that, that firms can, can access for, again, for free. Um, so hats off to that team

for, for developing that.

Evan Troxel: Nice. So how, what kinds of [00:13:00] initiatives are you, are you doing beyond, beyond that one at TAP?

Ryan Cameron: Yeah. So we've really picked it up a little bit. Um, it used to be, you just came in and put on a show and then you just sort of like, Relax for the rest of your duration. Um, I, I came in and I, I got really moved by the small firm exchange conversation.

Um, I, I basically

just sat in, um, on a, on one of their calls and just happened to be focused on like AI or technology and everybody was hurting. And I, that just really struck me inside. I was like, wow, what, what CAA, what's, hey, you're, you're going to be the chair someday for TAP. You better. Like, get on top of this, and like, help, help these firms, like, this is ridiculous that they, I, sorry, hopefully I don't get in trouble here, but, like, it's, we should be, like, helping, um, these firms that are, that are members, um, like, at least, at least come up with a playbook

of how to, how

to develop this, or strategize, and, and, and [00:14:00] help them move forward, and so that, that's where the, the theme from TAP really came from, we did, uh, brainstorming, uh, Smash Buzzwords Together session, But, um, that's where, where it really came from.

It went from being like developing a toolkit to really thinking like, no, it's bigger than that step back. It's a, it's a playbook. It's like an approach, right? We, AI can't like make, we shouldn't be making like demands or things like that. Like you have to do it this way, you have to do it that way. We should have a general playbook of like, hey, here's a case study of how you could do it. Um, and here's like a playbook of like, You've got these players, you've got this coach, you've got this team, here's how you can, you know, make play calls, um, sorry for the sports metaphors here, but here's how you can make play calls with these different options depending on the defense or offense you're going against, and what, you know, what's your strategies and objectives, are you going for delay of game, are you going for field goal, are you going for a touchdown or a 10 yard pass, like, that's how [00:15:00] businesses operate essentially, it's like, what are our positions, What are our people?

How much is it going to cost? How much time is it going to take? Like if you think about a game clock running down and your resources available to you, like you, you want a playbook that everybody, the coaches and the players are reading from. And so that's, that's really where that, it's important, right?

It's, it's important for firms to have that. So we want to help develop that. And then we, just like every, every person ever, Oh, Hey, I got it. Like, Oh, I know this. We didn't know anything. we we went into the second call. And we asked a couple questions and it's, it's scattershot. And so we, we realized that this is going to take a year to, uh, of probably half a dozen phone calls, like, like the ones we were having with a full map of different areas of technology, um, that, that need, um, you know, a resource management guide, essentially, again, a playbook, uh, for [00:16:00] folks to understand, like, when to, like, when, when are you. Large enough to move, um, from your, like a smaller enterprise resource, um, tool to a larger enterprise resource tool. Like, when you move from a JIRA, Dell type JIRA to, uh, a different time sheet management payroll type thing. Or, are you insourcing, are you outsourcing, um, that? Um, it's just, it's just amazing the conversations we started having.

So we started to break those into different categories that, like design, marketing, um, project management, um, all, all the different categories. And we're coming up with surveys. We're at the point now where AIA has a survey team that, um, we're going to be talking with to actually do a better job of, of, of doing that.

Cause that's, that's their full time job. That's, this is more of my hobby. So they will do a much better job. I just, Tesla and I, and that the rest of the team had just had the ideas to get this thing, um, off the ground. So that's, that's really what we're hoping to do over the next year. [00:17:00] I'm really excited about it.

Evan Troxel: I have to just pause and say hello to Tesla myself because I know she listens and every time I see her, I love her. Talking to her and seeing her. So hi, Tesla.

one thing that's interesting to me about technology and practice, it's right in the name, right? It's like, and this is something that we saw a big transition when I was at the firm that I was at, which is that technology impacts all the different aspects of practice.

And it's not just IT, right? I think before I really went into the role of digital practice leader, it was IT, and it was very reactive, putting out fires, setting up people with hardware, getting software installed, but it wasn't, it didn't include the perspective of the actual practitioners. It was more of a, it was like a service that operated within the firm that was just constantly, you know, Dealing with problems.

And so it was very hard for that to be proactive because all [00:18:00] of the time was spent being reactive. Right. And I'm sure smaller and medium sized firms feel like that all the time. And it's like, how do you get ahead of things? How do you get strategic with technology? And the things that you're talking about are in alignment with that.

And so for our firm to move from reactive IT to proactive digital practice, like what we were talking about, we, we're always talking about it like it was the future of practice, but, but it's just practice, right? This is how practice has evolved, right?

Ryan Cameron: modernize.

Evan Troxel: And, and people still think of it, though, as like these different buckets, like there's architecture, there's design, there's sustainability, there's technology, and it's no, it's actually horizontal, it's like, those things are in all areas of practice, so it could be HR, graphics, marketing, rendering, delivery of projects, QA, Specifications, like there's all these different pieces of [00:19:00] architecture that make up a project and make up how firms run that technology impacts.

And what you're talking about is kind of cohesively looking at all of that, right? Because you talked about practice operation software, right? It's like, how are we tracking what we're doing? How are we tracking our billing? How are we? How are we getting people to, to know what to do and when to do it and how, how do we get ahead of that when we're staffing projects and all of these things?

Like all of these things have to work together and it needs to be a cohesive strategy. I mean, that to me is where TAP can really make a huge difference in firms who are struggling with the transition of the way that we used to do it, to the way that people are doing it now. And when new people are joining firms, they're expecting.

this level of technology and they're just, they're, they're walking into firms and they're seeing the way that, that it's always been done still, right? So there, there's an, a natural contrast there that they're, it's like, [00:20:00] it's kind of shocking when graduates come out of school and they go into a firm.

where it's like, they're not modern. They're, they're still doing things the old way. Right. And, and I can, you see other verticals out there and it's like, they look really so much more attractive because they are just evolving and keeping up or getting ahead of it. So transitioning from reactive to proactive and strategic seems to be one of those things that TAP can really help with the conversation around and helping people make those transitions.

Ryan Cameron: Yeah. Super important. Super important.

We mentioned Tesla. We should probably mention all the board

committee

Evan Troxel: Do it.

Okay.

Ryan Cameron: I don't

want anybody to feel left out. We have an amazing group of appointments over the last two decades. I can't list everybody, but just the folks that are on now. Thank you. Um, yeah, they just deserve a lot of credit, and so our current group consists of Nick Cameron, FAA, who just got FAA,

um, yeah, um, he's, he's been on your show,

um, he's from Perkins and

[00:21:00] Will, um, he's my 16th cousin, no doubt, we have the same last name, um, both from Scotland and at some point in our lives, and in our history, I'm sure, um, and then, uh, Joel Martineau, DeRofus, um, he's in his, his 4th year, so Nick's in his final year, um, on the, on the board, and then Joel's in his fourth year. Um, myself, I'm in my third year in the chair for this year, um, so I think people, people remember that event. Um, then next up we have a, a good friend of mine, um, co, a co speaker for Top Speaker Award in, at 18, Cesar Escalante. Uh, he's at Autodesk. Um, and people know Cesar, he's on the AI California board, and, um, he's very active in the community.

Um, yeah. Created, like, San Francisco Computational Users Design Groups, things, things

like that. Um, leading a whole bunch of things. He's amazing. And he'll be my successor next year as chair. And then, um, our newest five year member is, uh, Vicki Harris. Um, also very well known from, from her [00:22:00] Bill at RTC days. Um, and she's at, uh, HKS. And so those are, those are our five year members. Um, but also, um, last year, um, we decided we were overwhelmed and we needed help. And so we expanded. Um, our, our committee and we, we thought to ourselves, Hey, we, we need like a design technology leaders group. We need a CFO or I'm sorry, a CIO, CTO, large from round table type people. And so, um, uh, luckily Alex, uh, Pollack, uh, Thornton Tomasetti, um, joined us last year and this year. And then we've, uh, got Brent Malti from, uh, Turner, am I pronouncing it right? Turner Fletcher.

Um, Yeah.

he's the CTO there, and so, um, they're, they're forming a little group, and so that way we have, uh, just an olive branch, if you will, to the, the other groups that are out there that deal with technology, because it, it seems like we're doing something, and they're doing something, and we just want to [00:23:00] make sure that we're not doing duplicate work and stuff like that.

Um, then we mentioned, uh,

Tesla, of course, from HNTB, and then, uh, Sarah Lobman with, um, uh, Lord Ack, Sargent. LAS. Um, and so all amazing folks and they're on, um, the subcommittee, uh, small firm exchange subcommittee with me and, um, sustainability. Um, so we have, we're not trying to take over any other groups. We just, we, we know that there's a lot of technology branches that, that we can help with.

And of course, Emma Tucker Emma Tucker is our AIA, uh, knowledge community liaison, uh, does like all the heavy lifting and she's super helpful in, in all aspects here. So. Um, hats off to her as well. So that's that's everybody. Um, and then, uh, we will be bringing on someone new probably in December or January. So

yeah.

Evan Troxel: Can you talk about that process and what the commitment is, how it happens, so that people who are interested just have an understanding of what the expectations would

Ryan Cameron: Yeah. [00:24:00] This is, I wish I would have known what, what I know now. So if you're listening to the podcast, get ready. Cause, uh, you know, we'll tell you that it's like an hour a month kind of thing, but that's, that's just the call. That's just the monthly call that you're on. Um, I'm not saying it's like 100 hours a month, but there are, uh, especially in your third year, there, there might be a pretty lengthy time commitment because you're, you're obviously sitting down with, with folks and, and, and trying to put on a conference that you've probably never done before.

But, um, and so initially, and I, I think, um, I think submissions for new members on the board are closed now, or it might still be open for another week, um, but we, we take submissions. So it's, I don't want to say it's an intense process, but we will sort of interview you. We have a list of questions we ask you. We ask that you provide like a cover letter. Why do you want to be on, uh, the TAP committee? Um, the, the most important thing [00:25:00] is let your firm know. Get, get, get somebody in. leadership, whether it's the CEO or CIO, let them know that you plan on joining, because there is some financial commitment that the firm needs to make.

So we do need a letter from someone at your firm that, you know, helps sign the checks, because there will be times where we can't reimburse you for a hotel or a flight or something like that, or an opportunity comes up and we need, we offer people, you know, the chance to go. to a leadership summit, um, like in DC or something like that, which is an incredible opportunity. We just need to let folks know, um, and then a resume. And so those three things, um, just, just to kind of get in the door. And then the, the five, five year people, um, kind of sit down in a, in a zoom call and, and go over them and then we kind of vote on it and we accept that the next person onto the, onto the team. Because again, it's like a, it's a, it's a [00:26:00] moving, um, situation.

It's a

five year commitment to Rolling.

So,

um, and so first

year, so now we're getting into it. Welcome to the like admissions component of this now, now that you're on, um, it's, it's like a, your first year. We just try to, like, ease you into the process.

You're basically in charge of the online forum, so discussion groups, um, comment section, that sort of stuff. Just, and we do that just so that you get to know the community a little bit. It's not the most active forum by any stretch of the imagination, but you can

kind of

roll back and see,

um, names and stuff and, and see what people are posting.

Just get a better feel for, um, the community, all 15, 16, 000 members or so. And then your second year. Um, so we've had to change now that we're, um, on the first day of the conference and hopefully that's going to continue. Um, we've had to change the role of second year and fourth year. So second year we're having that person, um, be in charge of, [00:27:00] um, what we call the forum day.

So don't forget we have symposium day, but then usually two days later we have open forum, which is like a 90 minute session. Um, and, and so that's, um, all the, all the different AIA tap chapters. Um, we usually call on them to come up with like a 15 minute presentation about the latest thing they're doing or what they're seeing. And that brings a lot of exposure to, to the folks that do show up to that. So hopefully second year, you've got the online forum under your belt. Now we're doing an in person forum for a, for a 90 minute session. Then by the time you're third year, you can put on a conference, right? I mean,

don't get me wrong, you get a lot of help.

It's Natural progression.

yeah. And so, a lot of the people that join have, so I have experience doing that with like the BIM workshops with Todd Shackelford and Carla Edwards and Bill Allens we talked about before the call. Um, like putting on something, at least, at least I had some ability to do that. My wife actually did the website for the BIM [00:28:00] workshops back in the day, this had been 12 years ago or so.

Um, so I, I, I kind of knew what was going on there, and I'd been to probably 40 different conferences speaking at every one of those. Um, so I, I had an idea of, of how to do that, so it was a little bit less stressful for me. Um, and then by your fourth year, you're looking, um, to tackle what we call now the Innovation Grant. And so, um, that's just us, uh, and this is sort of the first year of, of us doing this. It used to be called the BIM Awards, then it became the Innovation. Uh, awards, and then it was, I want to say it might have been like Ryan Johnson, Brad Prespo, who are, who are, you know, retired from the board now, and, and Nick and, and Joelle, um, said, hey, why don't we, why are we not making an investment in this?

Why are, we're giving like a piece of paper, great Revit award kind of thing. Why don't we take some of our funding and provide an investment? Um, for folks that are coming up, [00:29:00] maybe it's a Revit plug in, maybe it's the next test fit, maybe it's the, maybe it's an AI tool that could help architects, like, Yeah, I could go off on a rant on this, on how low the investment profile of, of AEC is in general.

We're like the fourth largest industry in the world. In the world and we're like the last place in terms of like investment for for technology and innovation. It's

I've got all kinds

of stats on that just it's super super frustrating. So we so we're like, let's do our part Let's do what we can and that evolved into yeah the innovation grant.

And so we've we've got some award winners That I don't know where that is because I'm not I'm not in charge of that But look for that in the in the coming months and years and then Nick We he's got Ideas from the five people before him. He can talk to the four people behind him. Um, we call it SAGE advice, and so the fifth year, you're kind of like helping set the direction.

Now that you've got like, you know, [00:30:00] almost a decade worth of, of, you know, just group knowledge there,

um, we, we want

that person to fill in where they, where they can, because they've done everything, right? They've done everything that the fourth year, third year, second year person's done, and and give us any kind of advice that they have, help us, you know, uh, improve our network. Um, and reach out to folks, and, and just, just give us sage advice. That's, that's what we say. It's, it's more

than

that.

Evan Troxel: kind of an, it's kind of an advisory position at that

Ryan Cameron: Yeah.

Yeah.

And so it's, it's

the place to be.

Evan Troxel: Yeah.

Ryan Cameron: But, I mean, if, if for some reason the, the chair can't, um, meet, meet the, um, you know, they get sick or they have a funeral or something that, that they can't make up, it's kind of the fifth year person's responsibility to kind of pick up the pieces.

Yeah. Be the co chair real quick. Um, if something like that were to happen, it's like it's a good gap

stop. Um, so Yeah. [00:31:00] and so that's, that's what you can expect. I mean, there are months where, you know, it's, it's probably two hours a month and there are months where 50 hours a month could be very, very much could be. So, especially in your third year, when you're putting on a conference. With

amazing speakers. We should talk

about the speakers and

Evan Troxel: Yeah. Let's talk about the conference that you just had. The symposium was fantastic. So you want to give us kind of an overview of, of it and then we can get into a little bit more detail into each one of those

Ryan Cameron: Yeah. Yeah. So, um, everybody knows, well, I shouldn't say that, but everybody knows Phil Bernstein. So, I'm just super, super happy that, that he said yes. Um, I, I honestly, when we, when we first started, I, we didn't even approach him because we, we thought we wouldn't be able to even get his attention and the fact that he came in and knocked her out of the park was, was incredible. Um, and he could meet, um, the afternoon. And so, um, [00:32:00] some of us knew, um, Mehdi Norbashk, and so I got in touch with, with Dr. Mehdi, and asked him if he could, um, be our morning keynote.

And pretty much right away, you know, I explained everything that was going on, how we'd be a great fit, and after probably one or two conversations, he accepted, um, and he had, uh, I'm so glad he did, because And, um, it's, for a second there, I didn't think he was going to, and we were getting to be late February, early March, maybe even late March, and, um, it would be really hard on short notice, like a two month's notice, to get anybody else, so I'm super glad he said yes, and he, he's got the book out now that's called Augment It, and

I

gave a couple copies away at the, at the, at the session, because that's, that's what I do, that's one thing that I'm known for, is I always give a book away when nobody's, nobody's expecting it, Um, and so his discussion was around how design professionals can augment themselves or the practice [00:33:00] with this concept of superintelligence, as we all know, AI, artificial intelligence.

So, um, absolutely mind boggling session. So it's un, it was unlike your typical session where you kind of sit back in a passive mode and just listen to a speaker. No, no, no. He has this great presentation that it's just this mix of like passive active, passive active. And so he would get up and kind of explain the thesis. And then we would break into, um, not small groups or anything, but whoever's sitting at your table, um, or group of tables. And he would just kind of broadly ask questions and you could use your phone to get onto this app and like explain like a quick survey, um, Mentimeter or whatever it was called,

and really got help firms.

I'm going to simplify this as much as I can. Helped everybody in the room at least start to get to a strategic thinking point written down that they could [00:34:00] take with them about how technology works in their practice and how they could do it better.

So that, that in itself was probably worth the hundred bucks, you know, to show up that day. That was absolutely phenomenal. And so it was again, him talking and discussing like, here's where it is, here's where it could go. Here's what other folks are doing. Here's what I'm doing. And then let's sit down and discuss it. in a way that helps you. And then he'd get back up and he'd do another thesis and then we'd sit back down.

So it was absolutely, you, you were there. I mean, yeah.

What was your

Evan Troxel: yeah.

A couple things about, about Mehdi. Mehdi's been on the show before and I've been through his workshop as well. And I think one of the things that I appreciate about his approach, number one, is like the, the way that he engages with the audience and has that, the, the delivery of information, and then there's like the active part that you were talking about, right, where people are having an active discussion and then maybe reporting back out of that.

It's fantastic because it keeps everybody on their toes, it keeps people thinking [00:35:00] and participating, not just sitting there, it's not just a one way conversation. But what I, what I appreciate about him is, is two things. Number one is that he gets everybody on the same page in a really, he does a really well, a good job at that.

Because the big problem with technology often is that people hear something, Secondhand, thirdhand, it could even be firsthand, but they're hearing a version of it that number one may not be current, and number two just might be scary enough to say, I'm never going to touch that. And so AI is definitely one of those things, right?

And this is his expertise. And so what he does is he takes everybody through, like, this is what, first he defines what it is and gets everybody on the same page. And then we start to talk about practical applications. Yeah. But the goal isn't just to find something to do with technology. So the other thing that I appreciate about his approach is that he's, he gets everybody to think about what they do best or why they do what they do.

And then we figure out if what [00:36:00] the right technology is to approach tackling that, right? So it's just like any tool. You need to use it for its purpose, right? And so you're not trying to find something to do with AI. You're trying to solve a business problem, or provide a value for your clients, and then you're going to pick the right tool to do the job.

And sometimes that might be AI, right? And METI's great at walking people through that. So, number one, it kind of gets rid of the fear and turns it into excitement about the possibilities, and then we start to think about what the possibilities are, and then we say, okay, are these tools the right fit? to start to try to accomplish those possibilities.

So overall, I totally agree with you. His, the way that he delivers his keynotes is fantastic. And it is very much like a workshop style of a, of an interaction. And I, I feel like we're all there to like, we, we're up for the challenge. We're architects. Like, this is what we live for is solving problems. And so he has a really [00:37:00] great way of kind of engaging people to flex those muscles that we already have.

in, in our industry and really like turn that in with everybody else in the room, kind of turn that into a really amazing session.

Ryan Cameron: Yeah, it was, it was very exciting. So I was taking pictures and taking video the whole time because we would try to scrapbook it too and collect all that. Um, and a lot of people had no idea that three hours went by.

They, they said it was not long enough and it was just so incredible. so yeah. Um, yeah, that was, that was great. Um, and then we obviously broke for lunch. We had our, our sponsor, um, Guardian for Revit, um, kind of give a little, uh, discussion. So, hats off to them. Um, with, you know, without our sponsor's help, we, we wouldn't have been able to pull this off either. Um, and we had Nemshug Group as a sponsor. Um, and we had them give a presentation later.

And that's, you know, Nemshug Group, DeRofus, and Bluebeam, and, and all the, all the crazy awesome softwares we use. Um, and then we came [00:38:00] back from lunch, um, and we had Phil Bernstein, and in, in, great presentation name, it was something like the overwhelming, unintelligible, meaningless mess, how will AI make sense of digital design, or will, will AI make sense of digital design,

um,

Evan Troxel: a great clickbaity

title.

Ryan Cameron: Ha ha Ha he, I know he does that on purpose, so, um, but yeah, I mean, just. Again, wonderful presentation that so many takeaways just, um, about how to be skeptical, but positive and, um, how to really investigate, um, and research, you know, a little bit like, like what Betty was saying, um, you know, right tool, right, right time, right, right project, right goal. And how, how AI has evolved since like 60, I think it went back to like the 60s or

Evan Troxel: Fifties or the sixties. Yeah.

Ryan Cameron: And so he just took us through that timeline to get us to today and then he took us from today where it [00:39:00] could go. And, you know, some of their, there was some stuff for, for shock value of maybe, maybe it doesn't go there. There was some stuff that's like shock value, but it is happening. And then there was some stuff that's like, it's not quite there yet.

Um, but it is developing, but it's maybe five years out. Um, so it was good to see how that branched off. In, in all the different corrections. Again, fascinating. Um, presenter. It's absolutely, you, you missed out if you didn't See, if you've never been to one of his, um, they're, they're so well curated. It's, it's hard to describe.

Evan Troxel: Absolutely. Yeah, his talk was, it's always, his talks are always filled with information, but in a really, he doesn't just present information. The way that he connects dots, I think is, is what really makes it valuable and meaningful to, to hear them in person because he, he has a way of, like his, His [00:40:00] understanding is, is vast, but also his experience is vast.

Like from, from his working at Yale and Autodesk and being, his involvement with AIA and Pelle Clark Pelle, and you know, he's, he's worked in the firms. He's worked at the, at the product, you know, providers he's, he's worked with the AIA for a long time. He's taught he, so he, he, he runs the whole gamut of.

age groups, right? Students all the way to the people who've been in the practice for a really long time. And so he, he brings a great perspective that is, is pretty all encompassing to the table. And so when he speaks, I mean, it's, it's, it's very well, not only researched, but delivered. And, and he has a research group at the school that's, that's helping pull this information together and put it into diagrams and really.

explain things in a way that architects can understand, right? Like it's, it's very visual, the things that he's saying as well. So he backs that up with, with, uh, the diagrams. And [00:41:00] I always find that to be particularly useful in the way that he gets his message out. So, uh, and recently wrote, wrote the book on AI and ML, right?

So this, this is kind of an ex this talk was an extension of what was even changed since that book came out, which was not that long ago.

Ryan Cameron: Right, Right.

Also, a book I gave away at the conference, both, by the way, both their books, um, for the first time were at the a i A bookstore and both books. That's sold out at the AIA bookstore. So any future speakers that have a book, um, just, just know that we, we sell, sell out.

Evan Troxel: You help sell copies, right? Which is hard to do in today's world. So, yeah, good

Ryan Cameron: Yeah, Yeah, I'm pretty excited about that. So yeah, again, we, we also want to be as, as, you know, gracious with our speakers as possible and offer them as much, you know, more than just a free meal that day. We want to. really connect with them and help move their message forward in whatever way we can. We're non profit, we're, we're a sub category of a [00:42:00] non profit, like, so we, we, unfortunately, we've never really paid a speaker, um, and, and so, um, I, I think we maybe got them gift cards or things like that, but, like, we've never, you know, never paid them, so that's just great that they were, um, able to do that pro bono for

us.

Uh, yeah,

then we

Evan Troxel: For the betterment of the community,

Ryan Cameron: Yeah. Yeah.

Um, and then we had a panel session and typically tap is just, it's like all panels for the longest time. It was very few like keynotes and presentations and things like that. Um, it was like, maybe we'd have a keynote and then the rest of the day was, was panels. Being the chair that I am, I wanted to change it up and wanted to totally change it up quite honestly and make it more interactive and make two keynotes and still include a panel because I still want people to hear from different groups. And we also wanted to [00:43:00] activate and involve other cases. Um, that don't get this opportunity, so obviously we reached out to Jeff Huber, he's on the Strategic Council. Um, Scott Knudson is the co chair, or former co chair of, um, Project, uh, I'm gonna say it was Project Management. And then, uh, Laura Wake Ramos, um, she's also involved in the Strategic Council. And then she's the co chair for, um, Project Delivery, she's with Mortensen. And so we wanted to mix as many Um, and we've been trying to get as many of our friends as possible into this and ask the AI question to project management, project deliveries.

How is the AI strategic council viewing this? Because this is a big, this is a big question right now. And it has been for three years, but like, it seemed like this year, like we're bursting at the seams with AI. Like it's this new miracle drug that arrived suddenly with this glowing promise and skepticism and how are firms using it? And how, how do we, how do we use it? She's even just [00:44:00] asking generally, like, how would project delivery use AI or how would construction use it? How would design use it? Um, and so we wanted to help people at least engage in the discussion to learn how to develop an AI strategy for firms and easy to do it steps. And so that's what that panel was all about. And just, um, it was moderated by our very own Alex Pollack. Um, again, she's on the, on the committee. She's a one year volunteer, but we hope to get her back another year. She's just been doing great, great stuff. Um, and so she had a whole list of questions. We, we batted a whole bunch of AI questions around, and I, I think she did a fantastic job.

Learned, learned a lot.

Evan Troxel: and can you talk about like why you picked those ones to, to participate in this?

Ryan Cameron: Yeah. So again, it just happened to be, I don't know if it's pure luck or just, I, I just started talking with folks and that's

really

what my, I guess my strategy was as chairs and just to get to know people. And, um, I got to know [00:45:00] Laura a little bit. Um, and she was just, how can I help? How can I help? How can I help?

And I was, I was just turning my head. I was like, I don't know how this is going to fit in until it clicked one day. And I was like, Oh, okay. Let's, we can't like, Help you put on a conference, but you can be part of ours. Like, is that helpful? And she, she'd loved that idea. And, and so then we're like, okay, let's, let's think about this.

And again, Alex Pollock's super helpful on this. Um, help me kind of like formulate this. It's again, it's, I I don't ever want to get the impression that I, I put on the conference. That's not about, that's not even close step, how it happened. Like everybody on the committee helps and you're just kind of the, the. phase for the day, I guess. And then you're exhausted. Um, but, uh, yeah, so this tremendous amount of help from, from all the committee members.

Evan Troxel: Nice.

Ryan Cameron: So that's, that's how they got on. And then, uh, Scott and I, and I want to say Jeff and Evelyn Lee were going to submit, [00:46:00] um, a, a full session at the AIA National. And I think it was something, I'm paraphrasing, it was like AI for dummies or something like that.

And just like, Basically this session, but like a little bit different and so we, we kind of remeshed it up and, and Scott didn't want to present it. And I was like, no, this is kind of your idea. So you're definitely on the panel. And then Jeff was also involved in that. Um, and he

teaches down in Florida as well,

um, at the university.

So he, uh, he was absolutely super supportive. Fantastic on this too. Very knowledgeable, very well connected, um, and he's on the strategic council and hats off to him because the strategic council like two weeks before AIA National kicked off, they said that they were going to have a meeting on the first day, so he broke out of his strategic council meeting just to sit on the panel

for that

hour and [00:47:00] then went back and, and He did his voting and stuff like that, so he's a very busy guy, and I'm super grateful that he was able to come in and share his knowledge about how the Strategic Council is viewing AI. Because it's still very new, it's still like, what are the legal ramifications, what are the ethical ramifications? So those are the things that they're dealing with, and we're hoping that sort of comes back to us now that TAP has made these connections. So, to answer your question, I got really lucky.

Evan Troxel: Okay. So, so let's talk about the feedback that you've gotten from this. So I assume there's a lot of positive feedback, but I'm also interested in critical feedback as far as, you know, you had a lot of participants there. What did you hear when it came to how the day went?

Ryan Cameron: Um, yeah, everybody wanted, wanted more. And, um, yeah, I, I wanna say it was Ed. Ed Atkins. I, I wrote a post on this, on, on LinkedIn and it was something, I'll paraphrase it, but it was [00:48:00] something like he'd never been to something that had so much information in such a short amount of time, um, that was so digestible. Um, and so that's again, good, good criticism. I'd, I'd rather have that than, than the opposite. And so just tremendous feedback from folks. And it wasn't just him, I'm still, I'm still getting stuff, you know, a month later, you gotta remember this was only

last month. So, I, I kind of expect to get an email out of the blue, hey can you give me, we, we've had a lot of presentation requests as well.

From, from Phil and, and Mehdi, and and recording requests. And unfortunately it's not in our budget to record anything. So those, those are kind of the, the, uh. I guess non critical feedback things as we don't typically, we can't afford to have a videographer, but we can give you the presentation. So reach out to me. I'd get you, um, uh, a condensed, um, very shortened, abbreviated version of, of Phil's that, that he shared with us, which is [00:49:00] phenomenal. Um, and then Mehdi's presentation. Um, you can't really capture their energy and their involvement in those, but at least you'll

have

the, the quote

unquote digital paper copy. Um, other

things are the, the, everybody wants to do AI again next year. It seems like some of the feedback and, um, that's, that's not up to me, that's up to, to Cesar Escalante, my successor. And I, and I have a feeling that it's going to be a little bit more driven towards like sustainable efforts. So,

um, just kind of

dropping that out there for folks.

Um, again, we, we want your feedback if that's a direction, um, people are interested in. I'd, I'd love to get feedback from that too. Um, but yeah, just more, like, okay, great. We've, we, you gave us world class presenters and filled our heads with, with knowledge. What's the next step? And I think that's, um, where we're going with this is that after every previous TAP, TAP [00:50:00] symposium, which was BCC, Um, you talked a lot, you got a lot of handouts, and then now what?

And so we're redesigning the website or updating the website, I should say. To where we are going to start putting these resources up that are just a little bit more available So you don't have to like reach out to me or the next chair and say where do I get a copy of this? We're we're working on like the next step like okay now you've done this Here's how you get in touch with Mehdi if you wanted to come in and give a presentation Or or Phil if you want him to come into your firm or zoom call into your firm and give that presentation because again Seeing them in person is totally different than just reading it on your laptop screen. It's totally different You're gonna learn so much more if you hear from them. And

so

that's, sorry, does that answer your question?

Evan Troxel: Yeah, no, I, I am interested in where this is going because it, uh, I think often, you know, Phil Reed says it best. He says that the best thing about conferences is the conversations after the [00:51:00] presentations, right? So, and so a lot of people are left kind of after that, just kind of, okay, that was a, an amazing experience.

Now, what do I do? And so you do need to provide, I think, as a, as an AIA level, you know, group here, like, what are some actionable steps? How can I now, what, what is the next step that I need to take? It's like, not even 20 steps away, but what's the next step that I can take to start to implement these ideas?

Or who do I talk to? Where can I get help? I mean, um, all of these are, are, seems like the natural progression, so it's great to hear that you guys are actually putting that into practice.

Ryan Cameron: and anybody can reach out to me at any time. I'm fully available on LinkedIn. I do get emails and questions all the time about where to get started. And so that's Even even starting with me. I'm a great connector of like, hey, what's your problem? Oh, this is a really good person for that or here's my friend Bill. You know, [00:52:00] like you should talk to him. Like I can definitely help facilitate that as well. I mean, it's

We don't need a

website for that. We just need human connection, right? That's that's

where it

starts. That's where I feel it should stay

Evan Troxel: Maybe, maybe let's just go in that direction for a minute. As we, as we wrap up here, I think, you know, what you just said and the thing that you're talking about doing, being good at doing is so important in our industry, and maybe you can just talk about how that has been valuable to you, the whole, like building the network, because.

When I was starting as digital practice leader, I mean, to go back to one of your earlier points, there was no playbook. No playbook at all, right? And so it's like, who do I look at as examples? Who can I talk to? And it became about building the network, which is where this podcast came from, right? It's just building this network over time.

That's added value to me. Now I'm giving back and I want to add that value to everybody else. whoever [00:53:00] decides to listen to these. But for you personally, and maybe just to kind of talk about the power of networking and why it's valuable, not everybody's extroverted. I guarantee that most, I think more people are introverted in architecture than, than extroverted.

So it's, it's difficult, but just talk about the value from your perspective of networking, in person events and, and where that value can be, can be found and had, um, for the benefit.

Ryan Cameron: Yeah, it it takes a while it doesn't happen overnight, but I

think

my path if people were interested, I Probably was an introvert. I'm definitely not an extrovert. I'm maybe an ambivert I can

like

just kind of go between, between

them. I

definitely like smaller groups. Um, so getting up on, on stage and speaking at 40 or so, you know, different conferences.

I'll be speaking at AIA Nebraska. I'll be speaking at AIA Louisiana later this year. Um, [00:54:00] so that was not a natural progression for me. I, I'm going to give it to you raw. Here's what happened. I got laid off in 2011 or something like that. So Thanksgiving 2011. And, um, that, that kind of stuck with me. And that's when I started that, the architect machines that I haven't mentioned yet, but, uh, because I lost all the models that I was creating and they weren't necessarily my property.

I was being paid from the firm that I worked for went out of business, but, and I never wanted that to happen to anybody ever. So I created architect machines, which is like a model. I just would upload my Revit models and Dynamo scripts and Grasshopper scripts and say, take them for free. Like, I don't want to lose them.

I got them backed up on. You know, this website that has backup to backup to backup. So anybody can have it. There's free, free to log in and download a bunch of cool Dynamo scripts. Um, and so that's, that's what happened there. And then I, I thought about it and I was getting involved, um, eventually got hired at another firm. Um, [00:55:00] and I got involved in putting on a conference and that was like BIM workshops, again, Carla Edwards, Todd Shackelford, Bill Allen, a whole bunch of like HDR, Louie, Daily Deal, our group of folks, and that was in Omaha, Nebraska. And I went from like helping, you know, like I mentioned, my wife actually did the website for him. Um, I went from that side of things to actually presenting at it. And like, Steven Schell introduced me at my first ever speaking gig. Like, that's a huge, huge honor. That guy is amazing. Um. And so I started speaking and that led to another speaking gig and that led to another speaking thing. And all of a sudden I'm speaking at AU and BUILD, and I even got some research published and presented at Healthcare Design. Um, so a very mixed, like an M shaped person, right? Not a T shape or a pi shape. Like, very broad, very like,

I go

deep in like a lot

of different categories, I feel like. Um, and so that just, I meet this person and I saw him again at another conference, and I [00:56:00] saw him again at another conference, and hey, we should team up. And that's like, that's how my relationship with like, Cesar Escalante started. Like, we've been friends for about a decade, because we just, when we're together, we just kick butt. It's like, sorry, like we just do, we're just, I don't know why, we just really Get along. We have a lot of the same common, common traits coming. Um, yeah, so, um, that's how that all started. And that's taken about 15 years, um, to do that. Was it 20? Okay, maybe not 15. 2012 to 2024. And so, yeah, that led to, you know, being published in, in Randy's book. I'm, I'm heavily featured in

his

Superusers book. Um, and it's just constantly, you know, getting on an airplane. And putting together, um, great material. Again, like, Cesar and I, we, I, I, I'm not, I'm not there to present to do a bad job. I'm there to be top speaker. and and we would consistently be top speaker. It's, it's gotta be great material. Right, Evan? Like, this is why you do the

podcast.

You, [00:57:00] you, it's gotta be great material. You've gotta have your, your research done. It's gotta be, Top notch world class stuff. That's just how I how I think of it. That's where I've I'm not there yet But like like that's that's where I want to be and so

that's

that's where all the network

and connections and the human connections All came in and just slowly and slowly, you know, the business card pile started adding up I was giving away tablets at AU I talked to NVIDIA into giving me like 20 tablets when they were making tablets still I'd give those away at AU at my session and it's just, I've had the most incredible fun time like racing

Ferraris and stuff with, with, uh, some folks for free.

I just get out there. It's, you can have

a ton of

Evan Troxel: That's great. Well, and, and those conferences, to me, the value of those conferences is the people who attend them, right? And, and to have those conversations after the presentations, because that is really where you get to know people, right? Like you, when it's not driven by the agenda of the [00:58:00] presentation or the order of the slides, it's like, well, what, what else is going on there?

What are the actual struggles? What are the things below the surface that we can dig into? And, you know, let's go grab a beer and talk about it, or let's go grab some food, or let's go grab some coffee, or let's sit down right here in the hallway. There's so many great conversations happening. And, again, like, just to bring it back to the show, the idea of publishing those for other people to hear, I find is, it's incredibly useful for, to build the community

around these amazing conversations and the amazing people that are the basis of these conversations and why they're passionate about doing what they're doing.

Uh, that to me is the real value of these conferences. I always go for the people, not for the classes, not for the symposium. Sorry, Ryan, but like the,

like there's people in that audience, right? Who are in there and those keynote speakers that like we've said many times during this talk, it's like you had to be there.

You did, you had to be there, right? To, because if you just download the [00:59:00] PowerPoint, you are not going to get all the information and you don't get what, what was happening in that room at that time. So, and, and you know, there's say what you want about hybrid work and remote and, and onsite and all those things.

Right. But. There is a value to being around other people and sharing ideas or just absorbing ideas through things that you hear in real time during those conversations and during the right after those presentations. So I just want to put a plug out there for people who are, you know, thinking about TAP symposiums and hearing about these things.

Like there is a lot of value, uh, and information that's shared at these that you have to be there. So I'm just putting it out there. Great. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to Tell everybody about TAP and I'm hoping that this will bring some more exposure and awareness to technology and architecture practice and the knowledge community.

Um, we'll put links to everything where people can find out more about that on, [01:00:00] in the show notes for this episode. Also put a link in there to connect with you on LinkedIn. And, uh, is there anything else that you want to let people know about before we say just, um, yeah, come, come help us make it better than it, than it is now. Yeah, we need your help.

Ryan Cameron: Love it.

Evan Troxel: Great call to action. All right. Well, Ryan, it's been a pleasure and, uh, I'm sure we'll talk soon. Be able to do this again, uh, have another conversation. So thanks so Thanks.